Silent Light (Carlos Reygadas, 2007)

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Saturnome
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:22 pm

#26 Post by Saturnome »

[quote=""membrillo""]
Saturnome wrote:Yes I wondered about Brel? I'm just glad he showed up because I'm a fan, but that's it ! The song is Les Bonbons '67, some kind of sequel of a big hit, Les Bonbons.
My guess is that I'll have to see it again.
Wondered about Brel? You must not speak French. It was very timely. Perfect.[/quote]
I do (and better than english, posting here on a english forum even make me feel insecure). I guess I really failed to see the point, and I'd like to read opinions :)
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"membrillo"
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#27 Post by "membrillo" »

Saturnome wrote:[quote=""membrillo""]
Saturnome wrote:Yes I wondered about Brel? I'm just glad he showed up because I'm a fan, but that's it ! The song is Les Bonbons '67, some kind of sequel of a big hit, Les Bonbons.
My guess is that I'll have to see it again.
Wondered about Brel? You must not speak French. It was very timely. Perfect.
I do (and better than english, posting here on a english forum even make me feel insecure). I guess I really failed to see the point, and I'd like to read opinions :)[/quote]
My friend - you should never feel insecure about posting here...Or anywhere. The fact that you are here on this topic indicates (to me at least) good taste.
woahmer
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#28 Post by woahmer »

I saw this tonight at the Walker in Minneapolis and he was there for a Q&A afterwards.

First off this was one of the most moving experiences I think I've ever had in a movie theater. From about halfway through the movie almost until the time I got home I was in a weird state where I was shivering, for lack of a better word. At the end of the Q&A I made sure to shake his hand but could barely get my "thank you" out.

As for Brel, he was asked about that and his answer was that he simply had to have something on the TV and he wanted to put something he liked. He further explained that maybe it was because Brel comes across as so passionate in the clip and he felt that it reflected something in Johan. He said that even though because of his culture Johan seemed very calm on the surface he thought he was a very passionate man. He also added that he liked that the kids would be watching something "nice" and not something violent or sexual.
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Saturnome
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#29 Post by Saturnome »

Thank you! I guess I could not ask for better than Reygadas' opinion :lol:
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miless
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#30 Post by miless »

He also talks about the Brel moment here. I also like the idea of the awakening scene being influenced by Sleeping Beauty as much as Ordet (even though it's nearly shot for shot from the latter)
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miless
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#31 Post by miless »

I just ordered the British Tartan disc (as it doesn't seem like there are any distribution plans for this film in the US)

I have to say that this film has really stuck with me. It hypnotized me the two times I saw it in the theater (within a span of three days), and I have to say my complaints/problems with the film (mostly the Ordet thing) have melted away into acceptance. I really can't wait to see it again in a few days.
Kenji
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#32 Post by Kenji »

Well, i thought Reygadas made a very promising debut with Japon, took a couple of steps back with ponderous + pretentious Battle of Heaven, but Silent Light is a superb mature film, and for me pretty well in the same league as Ordet. More than hints of Tarkovsky, spiritual edge and love of nature. I was impressed with the characterisations, performances (certainly felt for the main protagonists), and the pacing more hypnotic than boring. Beautiful opening + ending. Not sure if Brel added much (ok he's a passionate performer but i have reservations..), though it was nice to see the kids' interest in a different culture
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miless
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#33 Post by miless »

not only is the Brel scene interesting because of the children's interest in another culture, but also because they were watching it on a television, a device that many Mennonites don't own. This may well be the children's introduction to entertainment media.

edit: I also just received the British DVD today, and boy does it look great (the menus and special features are really compressed, but the film itself looks amazing, which is especially good because I'm watching on an HD monitor on my computer that generally amplifies every weakness imaginable)
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JCA
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#34 Post by JCA »

I loved the Brel scene. My favorite along with the river scene.
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Antoine Doinel
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#35 Post by Antoine Doinel »

Seville Pictures has picked up the film for Canada, and it seems it will be given a limited theatrical release over the summer. Press kit and images at the website.
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miless
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#36 Post by miless »

and still no word on an American distributor!
oh well. Even though I have seen this twice in the theater, I would totally see this on the big screen at least two more times if it were to come through the art-house circuit. I've seen it several times now on DVD and it is quite a different experience on the small screen... it's not nearly as hypnotizing and transcendental.
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Antoine Doinel
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#37 Post by Antoine Doinel »

So with no press at all, the film opens in Montreal today. But it's being "digitally projected" (ie. being played from a DVD). Bad news for anyone wanting to see this on the big screen from a proper print, but good news that a DVD release is more or less on the way.
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chaddoli
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#38 Post by chaddoli »

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Oedipax
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Re: Silent Light (Carlos Reygadas, 2007)

#39 Post by Oedipax »

Marty endorses:
“I was amazed by SILENT LIGHT – the setting, the language, the delicacy of the interactions between the people on screen, the drama of redemption. And most of all by Carlos Reygadas’s extraordinarily rich sense of cinema, evident in every frame. A surprising picture, and a very moving one as well.” – Martin Scorsese
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Jeff
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Re: Silent Light (Carlos Reygadas, 2007)

#40 Post by Jeff »

It's getting a proper run at Film Forum next week.
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HerrSchreck
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Re: Silent Light (Carlos Reygadas, 2007)

#41 Post by HerrSchreck »

I saw this yesterday at NYFForum. I thought the opening and closing shots were wonderful, and the film had many glorious moments, but I thought it was far too long and as a cohesive piece, for me, it ultimately failed-- for the primary reason that the staging of the actors was far too artificial. People just don't act like that thru and thru, day after day, weeks on end, and everyone everywhere everytime... staring immobile, face to face, with minute long pauses between each line spoken towards one another.

The fucking ponderous silences, with each sentence loaded with artificial steriods of significance, was just too much. Faces loaded with tension and significance, drama and intensity:

Person #1: (Speaks line)

Person #2: (Brow wrinkles... blinks... 1o seconds, 20 seconds... moist mouth sounds... auto traffic bleeds in from out on the expressway... more blinking... forty seconds... more moist mouth sounds)-- finally speaks line.

Person #1: (Brow wrinkles... moist mouth sound.... ambient room noise... face flexed, every tendon of the brow and mouth tensed in significant profundity... blinking... 15 seconds.. 20 seconds... a cow screams as though giving birth to an engine block outside... forty seconds... blinking... a minute.. otherwise immobile)-- FINALLY speaks line.

And on and on.

Dreyer, Bresson, Tarkovsky-- obviously this mans heroes-- never made films like this (never in a million years should that be a sin, but in this case the man is so clearly emulating a specific kind of cinema made by aforementioned, where by use of the extended take, a gently contemplative mise en scene, that which seems empty opens up and blooms with sublime meaning and visceral existential pleasure). Their human beings always acted like human beings, and for example Ordet.. when Dreyer's camera moves on these drifting excursions, he keeps his actors moving, they act naturally nonetheless, they don't slow down to half a mile an hour in conjunction with the stylized slo-mo artifice of the camera. In Dreyer there is a sophistication of means-- and there is What The Actors Are Doing, and there is What The Camera Is Doing. His actors do not act like his camera. (Obviously the children escape this conceit for the most part; I'm talking about the love triangle of the principals) For Dreyer, his camera movements and languid rhythms are merely a way of employing his mise en scene to capture and explore something that is running beneath the surface of typical human life. For Reygadas typical human life simply cannot exist because what he is doing with his camera/with his film doesn't permit its existence. The goal is not the searching out and revelation of something running beneath a wonderful script and fabulous performances from a blazing cast. For Reygadas everything is subverted, first and foremost, to the making of a self-conscious art film... which by it's nature, cannot in this case let in unjaundiced human activity.

That said, there were a lot of nice moments. But as a whole, the thing felt a bit sophomoric.
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bearcuborg
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Re: Silent Light (Carlos Reygadas, 2007)

#42 Post by bearcuborg »

^That's pretty much how I felt, however as I left Film Forum read one of the reviews they had posted and it basically stated that the film gets better with repeated viewings. I would be willing to revisit this film in the future.
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Barmy
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Re: Silent Light (Carlos Reygadas, 2007)

#43 Post by Barmy »

People in Real Life actually talk like the mannequins in Bresson films? If so, I feel sorry for your life. This was a huge improvement over the director's previous films. Yes, derivative, but at least derivative of people worth derivating.
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Anhedionisiac
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Re: Silent Light (Carlos Reygadas, 2007)

#44 Post by Anhedionisiac »

Of course people don't act like that in real life. Their performance is both of the self and the self-aware. When I say the self, I mean that they are stripped to their bare essentials without no indication of what one could call an actor's bag of tricks. And by self-awareness I mean that, while treating their feelings and characters rather seriously, they neither have the pretension of having the weight of truth or realism that comes with grandiloquence. A good example of this is Johannes father. More than anyone else, he shows indications of having a rapport with the camera by often slyly looking at it or even, in at least one scene, winking! This, I believe, helps give the film a down-to-earth kindness that jives rather well.

I love the performances in Ordet but they are not what one usually associates with Dreyer, not by a long stretch, since the whole film has quite a bit of the theatrical about it, nothing moreso than the acting, stemming from its roots being in a play.
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John Cope
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Re: Silent Light (Carlos Reygadas, 2007)

#45 Post by John Cope »

Yeah, the issue of whether performances are "realistic" generally means little or nothing to me. Depending on the milieu that can mean so many different things; and anyway, many different gradations of recognizable, acceptable "reality" can work. However, I do agree with Schreck and am glad to see these thoughts expressed because he's getting at the real problem here.
HerrSchreck wrote:For Reygadas typical human life simply cannot exist because what he is doing with his camera/with his film doesn't permit its existence. The goal is not the searching out and revelation of something running beneath a wonderful script and fabulous performances from a blazing cast. For Reygadas everything is subverted, first and foremost, to the making of a self-conscious art film... which by it's nature, cannot in this case let in unjaundiced human activity.
As I say, I don't really care if it seems like "everything is subverted" to the artist's agenda. This argument itself can, as we know, be applied to many filmmakers we all love by those who adamantly do not love them and steadfastly are unwilling to comprehend them. My problem though is related to the above observations (and it's hard for me to speak about this now as it's probably been a year since I've seen the film). Frankly, I never believed that Regadas understood the implications of what he was presenting us with. I fully believe he understands what he's "trying to say" but the subversion Schreck speaks of is tenuous because it all sits very uneasily within the context of his presumed thematic ambition. The subversion is often counter-productive in other words. I also fervently resisted most of Reygadas' compositions as they frustratingly seemed to distract from his points rather than enhance or complement them. I remember the stuff between the farmer and his mastress specifically being blocked out within an inch of its life. That didn't feel cosmic in the sense of Bresson or Oliveira or Kubrick but rather mundane, petty and small; as though the formalism itself automatically conferred profundity to the moment.

And this gets at the heart of the problem for me. Unlike many apparently I was completely unmoved by the ending. I get why others are and why, in fact, if they are it may be seen as some kind of triumph of Reygadas' art but this is where the implications of those moves come in and disrupt things for me. While I am not completely opposed to Reygadas' presumptive pantheistic gesture it still resonates flatly because it doesn't feel thought through and our determinations about it are therefore arrived at even more arbitrarily than usual. The film pivots disharmoniously between tacit pantheism and atheism, more of a demonstartion of a lack of metaphysical committment than anything else, however noble philosophically I may find those intentions.

I get that he's trying to tie resurrection into pure quirks of nature, things just happeneing and being "as they are", etc. But the fact is his ambition seems to be in fusing that sensibility within a context of idealism or absolute synergy. He wants to be both naturalistic and cosmic, suggest the purely deterministic and the seeming caprice of contingency, the personal and the spiritual, but whether we are meant to or even are able to coherently synthesize these perceptions is left frustratingly vague. Frustrating because it always felt to me like a dodge rather than some position on unavoidable ambiguity. It functions poorly as drama because it's far too diffuse in its effect. It isn't necessarily incoherent but it isn't necessarily convincing either. I suspect it may work well for those who want to be convinced of the legitimacy of this non-view, methodistically open minded to everything regardless of whether such an ideological position clutters fatally the possibility of any authentic, unqualified response. It's a daring gambit (rather than just blatantly making an atheist Ordet) and, for me, an appreciated one in theory but it's too philosophically and psychologically lax to have the impact it desires. It needed more rigor beyond that of its formalist contrivances.

I have been hesitant to post a response to Silent Light prior to this for several reasons. One thing is I originally saw it on a shall-we-say compromised medium which clearly can't help (though I disagree with the typical Barmy argument that the big screen experience is necessarily make or break). And I haven't felt much compelled to reurn to it. On top of this, my history with Reygadas is such that I can't imagine there won't be a need to return to it, if only for a reassessment. I hated Japon when I first saw it but expereinced a complete turn around in attitude upon a second viewing. This rarely happens (There Will Be Blood was the only other recent example), so I am willing to believe there may be a more here, a wiser sensibility alluding me presently, than I am giving it credit for. Still, given my history with Reygadas I went into this one prepared to surrender myself (which I sense is the necessary requirement to comprehend what he is doing) and it didn't happen. It aggressively didn't happen.
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HerrSchreck
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Re: Silent Light (Carlos Reygadas, 2007)

#46 Post by HerrSchreck »

Barmy wrote:People in Real Life actually talk like the mannequins in Bresson films? If so, I feel sorry for your life. This was a huge improvement over the director's previous films. Yes, derivative, but at least derivative of people worth derivating.
Jesus christ, barmy-- you can't even stumble into a discussion with a backhair's worth of sense these days.

Non actors delivering lines in realtime, but with a minimum-- or absence-- of gesture, is far different than an actor delivering each one with ten ponderous hours of preparatory blinking, tremorous buildup and skull tension from occiput to nose. In fact they are blazing polar opposites. Bad acting (or what you see as such) is entirely distinct from ridiculous directorial pacing.

But if you think Silent Light is better the Diary of a Country Priest, I feel sorry for your life. Whoops I already did prior to the post.
dospatines
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#47 Post by dospatines »

It's now claimed that Vivendi will release the DVD in the USA in September. Which is kind of a moot point right now since the Canadian edition is readily available. Amazon USA has a current release date of September 8.
Kenji wrote:Well, i thought Reygadas made a very promising debut with Japon, took a couple of steps back with ponderous + pretentious Battle of Heaven, but Silent Light is a superb mature film, and for me pretty well in the same league as Ordet.
I agree with the first part of your sentence. Japon was quite good, but Battle in Heaven is nothing less than a disgrace. As far as Ordet goes, maybe it's better to wait a few decades before equating any newer film with an established classic.
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George Kaplan
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Re: Silent Light (Carlos Reygadas, 2007)

#48 Post by George Kaplan »

HerrSchreck wrote:For Reygadas everything is subverted, first and foremost, to the making of a self-conscious art film... which by it's nature, cannot in this case let in unjaundiced human activity.
That said, there were a lot of nice moments. But as a whole, the thing felt a bit sophomoric.
I agree and think sophomoric is very apt to describe Reygadas' method. SILENT LIGHT, (despite its very effective opening and closing - which also seem like technologically enhanced updates of others ideas as well, Herzog perhaps) seemed like little more than a film built around the chance to restage the "big" scene from ORDET. Not so unlike much of what DePalma used to do with Hitchcock ad nauseum. It passes over from being a mere allusion or borrowing to being the raison d'etre of the entire film. JAPON felt even less organic to me in its use of a Kiarostami-borrowed "appointment with death" narrative and the musical quotations from Tarkovsky for a very similar effect. I admire Reygadas' taste in filmmakers and his interest in "slow" cinema but he seems to have brought little to the table himself other than this appreciation.
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Tark
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Re: Silent Light (Carlos Reygadas, 2007)

#49 Post by Tark »

It's pretty good and a rip-off. No more thoughts.
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gokinsmen
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Re: Silent Light (Carlos Reygadas, 2007)

#50 Post by gokinsmen »

It's amusing how people are so impressed by those opening and closing shots -- even mediocre reviews include something along the lines of "though the opening scene is indeed breathtaking...." Are we still so impressed by pretty-pretty pictures of sunrises and sunsets? It's Art Film 101: "To impress critics and cinephiles, simply use long takes and golden hour photography." Yawn. It's the easiest thing in the world and impresses without fail. To be fair, the ambient sound in those scenes is much more evocative than the postcard visual (albeit not particularly original either). Anyways, the only new or fresh or inspired thing in this film was the fact that it's in Plautdietsch.

I sorta feel like Silent Light could foment a lot of unhealthy filmmaking tendencies, but I don't want to spend too much time bashing this film -- better to spend time praising better ones. Suffice it to say that it faded from memory before the next, er, sunrise.
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