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From where I'm standing (NYC) this looks like a botched release too. It's playing in only three theaters. Compare that to Blue Jasmine, another film that apparently straddles the arthouse/indie and mainstream release line, and which has 16 theaters in the greater New York area showing it. I saw Grandmaster at the Lincoln Plaza, in a narrow theater with a tiny screen (smaller than Film Forum's), and had to complain to no avail about the projection being too bright, rendering feature (and attached trailers) milky and flat. It is also playing at the Angelika, which I refuse to frequent any longer, thanks to their coffin-shaped theaters, broken sound systems, and rude and incompetent staff. AMC Empire 25 is left, which I've never been to and probably never will. I haven't seen any advertising for the movie and even die-hard Wong fans amongst my friends were unaware that it was playing until I told them.

The US cut is definitely a mistake too. Though I appreciated seeing a few new scenes, the balance is all off now. The narrative has been simplified but not clarified. Clumping all of Gong Er's story together in the second half of the film effectively divides it in two and restarts the narrative from the beginning halfway through. Which means that the Weinsteins have unintentionally created a Hong Sang-soo movie. This approach is detrimental to the material though, as so much of Wong's method and meaning comes from the simultaneity of action across multiple spaces. These connections are hardly made, if at all, by this new cut.

It's still a great film that I'm tempted to watch in the theater again, but it has been badly compromised.

colinr0380 wrote:They're also using an RZA soundtrack in some trailers, the chap who did music for Kill Bill Vol 1, Django Unchained and Ghost Dog: Way of the Samurai

I should think that that chap would primarily be known as a key member of the Wu-Tang Clan. Also, while I'm being pedantic, his name is pronounced "Rizza" and so should not be preceded with the indefinite article an.

I myself was surprised to see that The Grandmaster will be playing at my local multiplex. We do get a lot of arthouse flicks in there pretty early, but I expected The Grandmaster to pretty much only stay in the NYC/LA area. And now that I see it's getting 800+ theaters, I'm pretty damn surprised.

I mean, does Weinstein really think this film has serious commercial potential? Sorry, but I don't see the average filmgoer even considering to see this film on a Friday or Saturday night. Hope I'm wrong though, I would like to see it be a success.

I was considering importing the Japanese Blu-Ray before seeing the U.S. cut, but then I decided to wait, upon hearing that Wong Kar-Wai approved and supervised both versions. Now, I'm starting to wonder if I made the wrong decision. ](*,)

Re: this film's ad campaign, I can't speak to its TV presence in general, but I have seen commercials for it during NFL games. I don't know how big a cross-section there is between football fans and martial arts fans, but I guess it exists.

Lots of television ads here across many networks.

criterion10 wrote: I mean, does Weinstein really think this film has serious commercial potential? Sorry, but I don't see the average filmgoer even considering to see this film on a Friday or Saturday night. Hope I'm wrong though, I would like to see it be a success.

This strikes me as extraordinarily silly. It's been proven time and again that Americans like action movies particularly those of the Chinese variety so with the Weinsteins marketing this as a ultra stylish martial arts flick I don't see what all the hullabaloo is about. It is a film with serious commercial potential.

knives wrote:It's been proven time and again that Americans like action movies particularly those of the Chinese variety so with the Weinsteins marketing this as a ultra stylish martial arts flick I don't see what all the hullabaloo is about. It is a film with serious commercial potential.

And it's also well worth noting that the Weinsteins handled many other big crossover hits in a similar vein.

Hero has already been mentioned, but there was also Iron Monkey, The Legend of Drunken Master, Operation Condor, Twin Dragons and Jackie Chan's US breakthrough Supercop, all but one of which grossed more than $10 million in the US marketplace alone. Plus of course the Kill Bill films, which were the biggest hits of all.

So while they're not specialist martial arts distributors, they're clearly not bumbling amateurs - and recutting Grandmasters to make it more comprehensible/palatable to US audiences strongly suggests that they're cynically assuming that Wong's natural fanbase will come and see it regardless, so they might as well try to give it broader appeal.

Not to mention titles outside of their solar system like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.

knives wrote:Not to mention titles outside of their solar system like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.

Obviously, but my point was that the Weinsteins themselves have been significant players in this genre for two decades. And it seems pretty clear that they weren't primarily motivated by the prospect of handling un film de Wong Kar-Wai.

The examples you two mentioned are definitely good ones that I wasn't thinking of. I don't know, though. This one just doesn't seem like it'll be a big success. I think the tracking on it is only like $2.5 million, though I guess this is the sort of film where its legs will have more potential than its opening weekend.

I think the comparison with Hero is apposite. For some reason I had it my mind that it was a US box-office disappointment. Maybe I was projecting all the fan frustration at its being cut, coming out so late, etc. onto its commercial success. That said, Hero, like Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, is probably closer to a blockbuster sensibility than Wong's films ever will be.

I don't think the comparison to those fin de siècle Jackie Chan imports is as relevant, since those were very star-driven in a way that Grandmaster won't be: the US appeal of Jackie Chan's action-comedy persona proved to transcend the modest successes of any particular import vehicle he arrived by.

Anyway, I wish the film success, and hope my skepticism is proven unfounded. Although it should be said that more and more, a Chinese film's US box office doesn't matter since the Chinese market is now so much larger than it was in Hero's era. Which is no comfort to the Weinsteins, but possibly lowers the stakes a bit for Wong.

Just got done seeing this in theaters and I thought it was amazing. Perhaps the new cut muddled the themes a little bit (and cut out one of "Razer"'s few scenes) but it was definitely worth seeing it in theaters because the cinematography was simply gorgeous. I may have to track down the chinese cut now, but I'm glad I saw even the chopped down version on a big screen.

jonah.77 wrote:I'm not completely clear on whether Weinstein had a strong hand in making the changes that resulted in the US release version, or if the Weinstein Company had contracted for a 2-hour cut and Wong made the changes on his own.

This Variety profile of Wong says that he and William Chang "worked closely" with Weinstein and Megan Ellison during the re-editing—though the writer seems to have been unaware that there was a distinct U.S. version in addition to the earlier international cut, raising the question of whether Weinstein and Ellison were also involved with the 122-minute version. This wouldn't be the first time Weinstein and Wong consulted on a U.S. recut, since Wong also cut two or three minutes out of of My Blueberry Nights at his suggestion (after already cutting about twenty minutes after Cannes).

Another interesting revelation from this article (besides the fact that a 3D conversion was considered, as mentioned on the previous page) is that Wong's son talked him out of using the plural "Grandmasters" title.

I saw this in theaters today, and unfortunately, wasn't all that impressed. It certainly is a very well made film, beautifully shot and masterfully scored. But, the frequent, rapid editing of the fight scenes tired me out very early on, and the lack of any depth in the characters really made me uninterested, although the final half hour or so devoted to Gong's character was probably the best part of the film.

That being said, this U.S. version is my first experience with the film. To those who have seen both versions, and now knowing my criticisms, is the original version that radically different that makes it worth watching?

I saw the U.S. version last Friday and found it fairly hollow thematically. The Weinstein edit felt more or less like an extended trailer or clip show that really didn't feel cohesive, despite some stunning sequences.

A few days later, I sought out the 130-minute Chinese cut and it's a dramatic improvement. The different structuring of the film emphasized how Ip Man, Gong Er, and Razor used kung fu for radically different purposes, which is almost completely absent in the U.S. version. Further, Ip Man becomes less of a cardboard cutout of a character. I was especially struck by how the Chinese version creates the contrast between his smug smile before the war to his melancholy in the second half after losing both his family and the possibility of uniting different forms of kung fu. It's sort of there in the U.S. version, but overcast by a love story that's luckily more underplayed and ambiguous in the original.

The final meeting of Ip Man and Gong Er in the cafe is a perfect example of how the two structures bring very different contexts and meanings to a scene that's otherwise identical in both. In the U.S. version, all I got was a sense of a love affair derided by historical circumstance. In the Chinese version, it's much more complex, with Gong Er once again ruled by private passions, which drove her earlier to destroy her father's legacy to defend family honor. Ip Man, although merely love lorn in the American version, is more opaque: bringing up his hope of learning the 46 hands, of uniting northern and southern kung fu styles, rather than indulging in any private feelings.

Also, thankfully, there's no mention of Bruce Lee and no "style" credit montage at the end. Also, the somewhat tacky button metaphor is much less prominent.

Can anyone confirm whether the Razor does indeed have more scenes in the International version than in the longer Chinese one?

jindianajonz wrote:

zedz wrote:EDIT: I would strongly advise anybody interested in seeing the complete film to pick up the Hong Kong Blu before it goes OOP. There's also a Taiwanese edition that seems to contain the same cut, but I can't confirm that. Considering the fate of a lot of variant versions, particularly where the Weinsteins are involved, I regard the availability of this version on DVD / Blu as a fluke.

Thank you! Any recommendations on where I can get it, living in the US? I haven't gone region free yet, but this is giving me my strongest desire yet to go for it!

EDIT: Amazon has them

I just want to confirm that this arrived yesterday, and plays fine on my region 1 player. So all the rest of us tired, huddled, region-locked masses can rejoice!

jindianajonz wrote:

jindianajonz wrote:

zedz wrote:EDIT: I would strongly advise anybody interested in seeing the complete film to pick up the Hong Kong Blu before it goes OOP. There's also a Taiwanese edition that seems to contain the same cut, but I can't confirm that. Considering the fate of a lot of variant versions, particularly where the Weinsteins are involved, I regard the availability of this version on DVD / Blu as a fluke.

Thank you! Any recommendations on where I can get it, living in the US? I haven't gone region free yet, but this is giving me my strongest desire yet to go for it!

EDIT: Amazon has them

I just want to confirm that this arrived yesterday, and plays fine on my region 1 player. So all the rest of us tired, huddled, region-locked masses can rejoice!

So it was the DVD you order then, rather than the blu-ray? I would almost certainly order the blu if I could confirm that it would play on my region A player.

Sorry, I ordered the blu. I always get Region 1/Region A confused.

I bought mine from seller David Ho (as he was the only one with more than 300 feedback), but other people have suggested ordering through yesasia.com

If you're buying a Hong Kong blu-ray, isn't it obvious that it would play on a US player?
Plus the Grandmaster HK disc has the region ABC logo on the back...

manicsounds wrote:If you're buying a Hong Kong blu-ray, isn't it obvious that it would play on a US player?
Plus the Grandmaster HK disc has the region ABC logo on the back...

Everything on the internet sounds like snark, so I apologize in advance for how it will sound. But, this is an honest question: ABC logo aside, why would that be obvious?

wattsup32 wrote:

manicsounds wrote:If you're buying a Hong Kong blu-ray, isn't it obvious that it would play on a US player?
Plus the Grandmaster HK disc has the region ABC logo on the back...

Everything on the internet sounds like snark, so I apologize in advance for how it will sound. But, this is an honest question: ABC logo aside, why would that be obvious?

Hong Kong releases are encoded in Region A along with the Americas and most of Southeast Asia.

twicebilled wrote:Hong Kong releases are encoded in Region A along with the Americas and most of Southeast Asia.

Yes, but apparently that no longer guarantees that your disc will actually play in your country (albeit I've seen no reports of this happening yet outside Japan).

Kirkinson wrote: Yes, but apparently that no longer guarantees that your disc will actually play in your country (albeit I've seen no reports of this happening yet outside Japan).

I haven't heard of any release doing this except for Sentai. At least I haven't read anything here or had any issues myself with importing discs, including The Grandmaster.

If you haven't already purchased the HK blu ray I would hold off and wait for another release - as is in evidence from the screen grabs a few pages back it has extremely bad (sub DVD) quality image.