criterionforum.org

Posted: **Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:48 pm**

GringoTex wrote:2) Keep Bresson's spiritual aspect in mind. There is good and there is evil, and the material misery of the characters can be transcended (there's that word again!) through the good.

I'm a bit confused about that in relation to Balthazar, actually. There were some rather obvious Christ parallels in the film -- the wound at the end, the "crown" of flowers Marie puts on the donkey, the walk to his death with a burden on his back. But other than that I didn't get any great sense of spiritual salvation in the film, and I'm not sure where the reading that Balthazar's death is a transcendence comes from. Like most of the other characters in the film, he lives a miserable life and then he dies. I suppose if you believe in the Christian notion of an afterlife then you could say that Balthazar's (and Marie's and the other characters) suffering in life is repaid by grace in Heaven -- but nowhere is this idea to be found, either explicitly or implicitly, in the film itself. To me, the ending implied nothing more than that Balthazar died, thus ending his troubles. I have to think that the idea of transcendence is being read into the film based on knowledge of Bresson and his ideas, because the film seems entirely grounded in the material world to me. The scene with the father and the priest seems to confirm this, as the wife's prayers to keep her husband alive are emphatically not answered. I think if this film had not been made by an avowed Christian filmmaker, it would be read quite differently.

Edit: Oh, and actually, the acting was one aspect of the film I did appreciate. Wiazemsky was especially good. But again, it's good within a very limited range of expression.

Posted: **Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:06 pm**

Bresson is one of the few directors I would ever say this about, but you really need to watch more than one Bresson to get what he's trying to do. I'd say most people are a little flummoxed and confused by their first Bresson. That said, Balthazar is probably my least favorite Bresson film. Watch Pickpocket (with the introduction) and then the commentary, if you're up to it.

Posted: **Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:21 pm**

I think Bresson had a spiritual and artistic mission (in that sense, i would say he is closest to Tarkovsky; despite the differences in their styles). His style is so different from other directors that it took significant time for me to penetrate in (and eventually, deeply appreciate) his world. For example, he didn't want actors but models -- and understanding what he really means by this can take multiple viewings of his films and much thinking.

I would strongly suggest the excellent material available at Masters of Cinema's Robert Bresson Site, in particular the texts of interviews with Bresson available at Words page.

And I agree with the suggestion above: probably A Man Escaped and Pickpocket are the best starting points for his oeuvre.

Posted: **Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:37 pm**

sevenarts wrote:I have to think that the idea of transcendence is being read into the film based on knowledge of Bresson and his ideas, because the film seems entirely grounded in the material world to me.

Yes, it's grounded in the material world, but it's all full of Christian (spiritual) symbolism and iconography. It's that dual nature which makes Bresson's work so fascinating.

sevenarts wrote:Edit: Oh, and actually, the acting was one aspect of the film I did appreciate. Wiazemsky was especially good. But again, it's good within a very limited range of expression.

It's generally taken that because the actors are expressionless, their range is limitless.

Posted: **Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:39 pm**

Balthazar was my second chance for Bresson, and I think domino might be onto something. After a completely unremarkable experience with Diary of a Country Priest, this one opened me back up.

My (entirely un-Christian, unscholastic, and uneducated in Bresson) viewing experience wasn't one of despair, though. After watching Balthazar get pissed on for 90 minutes straight, I certainly wasn't in a good mood. But when the flock of sheep move to reveal our furry martyr at the end, my heart was ripped into two parts -- "Little donkey friend, you fucking rock." and "Little donkey friend, enjoy the rest, it's about time." Neither of these struck me as sad, and each of them, even individually, outweighed every drop of sorrow that had preceded it.

Sermonize it, brotha Dcuk!

GringoTex wrote:It's generally taken that because the actors are expressionless, their range is limitless.

This argument seems a little bit on the pedantic side. Besides, I would never consider these performances (or any by non-actors) expressionless. They certainly aren't acting, but that's not the same thing. Neutral is the hardest expression to convey, because it never occurs in the natural world.

-Toilet Dcuk

Posted: **Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:57 pm**

I thought the acting (modeling) of the young male juvenile delinquents was pretty poor. My sense was that Bresson didn't have the slightest clue himself as to what made these kind of kids tick.

Posted: **Sat Jan 13, 2007 4:45 am**

Posted: **Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:03 pm**

These are certainly important points/observations. Here is an excerpt from Charles Thomas Samuels' interview with Robert Bresson (Paris, September 2, 1970). Full text is available here.

Samuels: Until now [Balthazar], all your films take place, as it were, without spatial or temporal particularity. Here, for the first time, contemporary mores are unmistakable: the blousons noirs, jazz, etc. Was this conscious and deliberate?

Bresson: No.

S: It just happened? Yet it happens again in Mouchette and in Une Femme douce. For example, in each film jazz enters with such volume and cacophony that it becomes hateful. Am I not correct, then, in sensing, beginning with Balthazar, your hatred for the modern world?

B: Perhaps not hatred, but rather distrust for some kinds of modern society. I am starting to write a script about the forces that dominate modern man.

S: What causes this recent interest of yours in contemporary life?

B: This interest is not recent. Since my balms have become simpler and simpler, I want to attach myself to some material that is resistant and that will make my work tougher.

S: Do you think it is a reflection of your time of life: the impulse to judge the age?

B: No. I don't judge; I only show, Or rather, I show how the world makes me feel now.

S: You say that Balthazar must pass among the vices of man. But Gerard, because of the very accuracy with which he is portrayed as a contemporary juvenile delinquent, seems to me to be too banal to represent vice.

B: Since six years have passed, he may seem banal. In any case, he is imbecility and violence, which go well together, the one producing the other.

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:16 am**

Michael Kerpan wrote:Frankly -- I'm with sevenarts. I much prefer Mouchette.

Although I love the film I can certainly understand his complaints, as they are not off base or wild or even incomprehensible... putting up with these sorts of films requires a very specific sort of disposition. I'd warn him off of the above recommendation for MOUCHETTE, which is even more monotone and devoid of varietal shades & nuance. Just a pure piece of atonal suffering.

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:26 am**

Bresson is difficult as a motherfucker, but this DVD is fantastic for the Bresson newbie. The Un metteur en ordre: Robert Bresson special feature is excellent, having interviews with Godard and Bresson, both of whom I could watch speak for hours.

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:45 pm**

HerrSchreck wrote:
Michael Kerpan wrote:Frankly -- I'm with sevenarts. I much prefer Mouchette.
Although I love the film I can certainly understand his complaints, as they are not off base or wild or even incomprehensible... putting up with these sorts of films requires a very specific sort of disposition. I'd warn him off of the above recommendation for MOUCHETTE, which is even more monotone and devoid of varietal shades & nuance. Just a pure piece of atonal suffering.

You'd think one would have the same sort of reaction to both of these -- but, for whatever reason, Mouchette works for me while Balthazar is (ultimately) annoying. Not sure why.

Posted: **Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:03 pm**

French completist wrote

For the ones who read French, I highly recommend the 2007 book Jeune fille by Anne Wiazemsky (Collection Blanche - Gallimard ISBN 2070774090), which is a personal account of the shooting of Au hasard Balthazar with Robert Bresson.

Very interesting reading.

This apparently is something of an unexploded bomb....

Printemps 1965. Anne, la narratrice, a dix-huit ans quand elle rencontre le cinéaste Robert Bresson. Cette entrevue a été organisée par son amie Florence, laquelle tenait le premier rÃ´le dans Le procès de Jeanne d'Arc. Persuadée que Anne est l'actrice idéale pour interpréter Marie dans Au hasard Balthazar, le prochain film du maître, Florence la pousse Ã auditionner malgré sa complète inexpérience. Au fil des séances d'essai, la présence d'Anne, son attitude, sa voix convainquent Robert Bresson de la nécessité de ce choix. Mais Anne est encore mineure, et il s'agit de faire accepter le projet Ã son grand-père, FranÃ§ois Mauriac. Heureusement pour elle, ce dernier mesure toute l'importance de cette opportunité.
Pendant plus d'un mois, Anne va faire l'expérience d'un plateau de cinéma. Robert Bresson, lui, instaure un jeu ambigu, entre séduction et domination. Bien que repoussant ses avances, Anne subit son emprise psychologique et le magnétisme de son génie artistique. L'actrice sent qu'une métamorphose s'opère en elle, suscitée par des désirs puissants mais confus, qui exacerbent sa sensibilité.

Un week-end, elle décide de coucher avec un jeune type de l'équipe, afin de calmer son hypersensibilité. Une étape fondamentale vient d'Ãªtre franchie. Son caractère s'affirme, elle ose tenir tÃªte Ã Bresson, renversant le rapport de séduction en sa faveur, tout en découvrant, jour après jour, la magie du métier d'acteur. Ã€ la fin de l'été, le film terminé, Anne sait qu'un avenir est désormais possible.

La narration est dense, tendue, précise dans la description des émotions qui habitent cette jeune fille devenue, en l'espace d'un été, une Â« jeune femme Â». Ce roman initiatique nous entraîne au passage dans l'univers singulier du septième art et nous fait découvrir l'un des créateurs les plus talentueux du cinéma franÃ§ais, qui aura été, pour la narratrice, Ã la fois un Pygmalion et un étrange séducteur.

Posted: **Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:55 am**

"un étrange séducteur" indeed.. thanks very much for posting this ellipsis.

I am not sure if Anne knew at that time that that would be her
first and last collaboration with Bresson.. As a principle, he didn't
want to work with his "models" more than once.

Posted: **Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:15 am**

My French is piss poor. Could someone please summarize the gist of the above quote so the ignorant among us can learn something from it?

Posted: **Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:52 am**

Quick précis: Bresson's direction gave her the screaming thigh-sweats and she ended up losing her virginity to a member of the crew during the shoot. The experience gave her the confidence to respond to Bresson as an equal and she began to enjoy acting.

Posted: **Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:30 pm**

I saw this film again last night and it was still able to fascinate me.
Of the years, bresson have become one of my favorite film maker and i really love his style of film making.
My first reaction with this film was kind of challenging.
First of, it seem bresson is not really concern with acting or lack of it.
Which took me a little while to get used to it.
Secondly, the characters in this movie are really unlikeable either, which was a hugh challenge for me. It is such a unusual film, and for people who is not familiar with his directing style might find his films too difficult to watch. Since this film, i have watched pickpocket , l`argent , lancelot of the lake, mouchette, a man escaped, dairy of a country priest and les dames du bois de boulogne and was not disappointed by them. I haven`t seen and really looking forward to watch the devil probably, a gentle creature and trial of joan of arc.

Posted: **Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:08 am**

ineedyoubad wrote: Since this film, i have watched pickpocket , l`argent , lancelot of the lake, mouchette, a man escaped, dairy of a country priest and les dames du bois de boulogne and was not disappointed by them.

A Man Escaped is the best Bresson film you'll ever see. If you ever find yourself wondering about Bresson's worth just watch that film and you'll understand why he's a master.

Posted: **Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:06 pm**

[quote="Jean-Luc Garbo"][quote="ineedyoubad"] Since this film, i have watched pickpocket , l`argent , lancelot of the lake, mouchette, a man escaped, dairy of a country priest and les dames du bois de boulogne and was not disappointed by them.[/quote]

[i]A Man Escaped [/i]is the best Bresson film you'll ever see. If you ever find yourself wondering about Bresson's worth just watch that film and you'll understand why he's a master.[/quote]

I agree, it's my favorite Bresson. I also prefer his [b]Joan of Arc[/b] to Dreyer's take on it, and [b]Une Femme Douce[/b] is wonderful. [b]Le Diable Probablement[/b] is one of his less interesting films IMO.

Posted: **Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:06 am**

Saw Balthazar tonight, going to let it stew overnight. I was utterly transfixed all the way from the baby donkey sucking milk to his final rest on the pasture. Every other scene, doors open and close, giving out a lovely visual rhythym.

Whew, is there a film more emotionally shattering than this? I don't think so!

I'm confused by the relationship between Gerard and the drunk guy, why does Gerard keep calling him a murderer? The police interrogation scene with the drunk guy first, then Gerard and his gang lost me. Are they all involved with smuggling or something?

ADDED:

The morning after, Balthazar still stewing in my mind. I'm suspecting that Gerard tags a crime accusation on the drunk guy simply because the guy being a drunk, nearly homeless has no support of any kind in life.

I got physically sick when Gerard lit a fire on Balthazar's tail. I wanted to kill him.

Posted: **Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:27 am**

Finally got to seeing this and I'm slightly confused. I'm glad about that though because I had the same reaction to Pickpocket, so six months months down the line I might be able to understand it better.

As for the film itself I feel a distant love for it. It being very ambiguous and my own lack of knowledge for Christian symbolism are probably the reason for the distant part. I do like the idea of an animal being the only true innocent. Such an idea never occurred to me before, but it is something I like. Am I right, or even close in thinking that Marie is suppose to show how humans, even under their best attempts, can't keep that same innocence (or should I be saying purity? I have no idea for what the right word is) as Balthazar?

One last thought: The father in his pride seems to be the most looked down upon character. Even 'villains' like Gerard have their own little pet the donkey moments so to speak, but especially after the prologue the father is just shown to be petty and prideful. The only reason I mention this is that in most movies I've encountered he would be played as the unsung hero who fights the corrupt, but not here. Just fascinating.

Posted: **Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:31 pm**

Tilda Swinton proclaims the donkey's performance the best in cinema.

Posted: **Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:26 am**

I recently purchased the late Schubert piano sonatas, and listening to D.959 independantly from the film it strikes me all the more what a brilliant choice of score it was -- the imagination it took to connect that piece to tinkling bells and braying donkey.

I wish I had sought out the recording used for the film. I prefer that gruff interpretation to Perahia's more legato rendering.

Posted: **Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:14 am**

bottled spider wrote:I wish I had sought out the recording used for the film. I prefer that gruff interpretation to Perahia's more legato rendering.

There's always Mitsuko Uchida.

Posted: **Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:13 pm**

Yes, that's more like it. Grave rather than lyrical. I remember now my parents raving about the Uchida recording of the impromptus.

~

Changing topic, Bresson remarked in the interview on the criterion disc that the au hasard of the title comes from a family motto. Presumably that's an abbreviated form, in the way honi soit is short for honi soit qui mal y pense. Can anyone flesh that out? Googling hasn't got me anywhere.

Posted: **Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:46 am**

Pollini is quite good too.

p.s. heh, yes, even Brando could've learnt something from the donkey(ies) in Balthazar

criterionforum.org

297 Au hasard Balthazar

Re:

Re: 297 Au hasard Balthazar

Re: 297 Au hasard Balthazar

Re: 297 Au hasard Balthazar

Re: 297 Au hasard Balthazar

Re: 297 Au hasard Balthazar

Re: 297 Au hasard Balthazar

Re: 297 Au hasard Balthazar