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unclehulot wrote:No offence Zazou dans le Metro, but when I see the phrase "I thought/feared as much" and Philip Carli's name in connection with such a statement, I scratch my head. Perhaps it's based slightly less on his recorded scores, but more on my having seen him play live for films he's never seen in his life, and turn it into an exciting, involving experience, and to top it off, create a musically organized whole, I tip my hat to the man. "skronkers and honkers"? Well, sometimes even 4 choices of musical scores (Pandora's Box) isn't enough to please everyone!

There was no offence intended on my side either. It wasn't meant to be taken as a qualitative assessment of the 'regulars' so much as me bemoaning the fact that a whole spectrum of music is being commissioned for live screenings which seems to be increasingly popular and successful which is not seen in equal measure on dvd releases. But there again we can say that not enough Silents are being re-issued per se and aye there's the real rub!

unclehulot wrote:

HerrSchreck wrote:It'll probably be the usual mishmash of Regulars seen on projects like this (The Movies Begin, Edison, various individual silents)... Sosin, Israel, Carli, Joe Turrin, Jon Mirsalis, and maybe even old uncle hulot himself. Folks like that.

Hey, I'm not THAT old.....

Just a smattering, oh, 12 or 13 of the shorter films.

No offence Zazou dans le Metro, but when I see the phrase "I thought/feared as much" and Philip Carli's name in connection with such a statement, I scratch my head. Perhaps it's based slightly less on his recorded scores, but more on my having seen him play live for films he's never seen in his life, and turn it into an exciting, involving experience, and to top it off, create a musically organized whole, I tip my hat to the man. "skronkers and honkers"? Well, sometimes even 4 choices of musical scores (Pandora's Box) isn't enough to please everyone!

I have no idea whether he or the other "regulars" were hired for the project, so I'm awaiting the list (and the set) as you are. BTW, I don't think Jon Mirsalis has been involved in any Shepard project, but certainly he is heard on various Kino projects.

I worded it wrong, at least inasmuch as I meant to write/express in a la "good ol snoopy" or "ol schreck reveals a mismatched set of Brain Wires once again as usual". I meant "good ol unclehulot," or "ol reliable hulot".

2B totally honest I don't know how old you are, know nothing of your personal bio, or even what you look like. It's was more intended in simple (slightly roughhousing maybe?) affectionate terms. I only recall two of your scores offhand (I'll leave it to you to reveal your id, as you-- I think it was you, but it could be a dude up at Rochester in the Eastman house who wanted to remain anonymous and asked me to keep his cover in a pm-- asked me not to identify in public), but I recall them fondly, despite the critique/tiff that erupted between producer and yourself via the R2 "two-transfers" release ofa particular title. Ive yet to hear a bad score by you.

I stand with you on both Carli, and being given the shivers via the idea of "skoinkers & honkers" avant scene being given carte on silents. That sounds suspiciously like Music That Draws Attention To Itself, which most emphatically should not be the territory of silent film accomps (at least in this mans opinion). Ambitious music strikes me like the camerawork in the Becoming John Ford documentary cinematographic abomination: it's like playing two competiing pieces at the same time.. tuning into two radio stations at once... placing a slightly transparent laminate of a hack painting over a Picasso that you're trying to admire. It's simply not the place for Diverting Attention Onto Ones-self musically. Rare is the time I've heard a musically ambitious piece succeed in entirely supporting the film it was (supposedly) designed to accompany. This kind of scoring requires a deep selflessness-- it's not for everyone.

Problem is it pays very little, requires a bit of prep and time... and so therefore attracts the kind of musicians it most emphatically should not have involved in it: young musicians desperate to make a name for themselves who will take any job at any rate so long as it's a bullet point on their resume. And there is unfortunately a disease which afflicts most disc producers, Kino being the absolute worst offenders: Taste-Free-Itis. These guys just let the rankest garbage pass for "scores", and the past nine years have seen some real abominations. The end result is Kino passes thru in many cases the worst kind of indulgence and Jumping Up And Down Waving "Look at me, look at me" and turning the viewing experience into a fingernails-driven-into-palms type experience unless the sound is turned down. In cases like the sublime Penalty you even get stuff even worse than the unlistenable Al Jourgensen/Ministry - type crap on the old Art Zoyd Nosferatu.. you get a guy (who actually kind of starts out okay with that moody melancholia over the Penalty's titles) who clearly has no love or understanding of the silent film, and actually starts mocking it! SOme of OLarry Marotta's idiotic noodling versus Wiene or stuff on Avant 1 is just completely insulting and entirely disrespectful to the material (The Seashell & The Clergyman anyone?). Slightly indulgent but beautiful material like Bye's Sire Arne's treasure is a sublime surprise and an utter rarity. SOme of the Ford At Fox silents, and some of the WB/TCM stuff (like the Chaney set Box One) are embarassing to specialists like Shepard & Kino, in that these big studios who barely have any experience in commissioning scores for this material totally kick their ass all over the room.

I'm the biggest fan of jazz, avant and serial music (zappa my hugest hero in these parts)... but the antique world of silents is just not the terrain for it.

HerrSchreck wrote:I'm the biggest fan of jazz, avant and serial music (zappa my hugest hero in these parts)... but the antique world of silents is just not the terrain for it.

Well it's my turn to qualify my previous statement and, similarly, I put '"skronkers and honkers" in affectionate parenthesis to denote the loose assembly of musicians who congregate around the NY Downtown scene and their associates, rather than advocating the sound of squawking sax and fingernails down the blackboard for silents.
Are you really for banning all experimentation on this score mein guter Herr Schrecklich?? I personally thought that Marc Ribot's score for Aelita / Frisell's for the Keatons/ Geoff Smith's recent cymbalom scores for Murnau, to name but a few from an ever growing repertoire, were deeply respectful and sympathetic to their source. I totally agree with you about Art Zoyd et al but years ago I saw Passion of Joan with live accompaniment by the experimental Harmonie band which I would like to have seen given a dvd release, at least over and above the new meditation school pseudo classical stuff we got on the Criterion. Lastly let me re-iterate this is not a slight on those probably chosen for the Melies set but more a general request for a loosening up on commissions, particularly given the scope increasingly on offer via live events.

This probably belongs over on the Silent Film Music Thread... but I'd really have to know title/distributor for the dvd's. I have overlaps for certain titles, and some I just don't remember offhand who the composer was. Notghing you mentioned offhand rang a bell.

What Murnau were you talking about?

I think you really have to take this sort of thing on a case-by-case basis. Some musicians can accompany a silent film effectively within their personal idiom, some cannot.

The only problem is that once you stick a music track on a silent film DVD, the film is in practice stuck with it. So (hypothetically speaking, of course) a trashy avant-jazz score for NOSFERATU or a cheesy Casio keyboard score on an avant-garde short will more or less permantently diminish the experience of that film for most casual viewers. DVD producers should be very selective about whom they commission for silent scores.

Live performance is another matter, because you can choose to attend or not attend a screening depending on your taste. (John Zorn, screech away!) Distribution rights necessarily restrict the number of editions of a single film that will be available on the marketplace, and multiple sountracks can eat up bitrate that should be devoted to the image.

Flicker Alley's edition of JUDEX works because the music supports the film, and the Alkan quotations are merely a plus. Carl Davis scores tend to be real class acts. The Alloy Orchestra's score for THE MAN WIHT A MOVIE CAMERA is "new" but still true to the energetic spirit of Vertov's film.

I agree that the goal of a silent musical score should absolutely not be to draw attention to the music. For that very reason I despise Richard Einhorns parasitical "Voices of Light" oratorio that Criterion unfortunately stuck with the PASSION OF JOAN OF ARC, which Zazou alludes to. It's utterly misconceived from the ground up. Zazou hit the nail on the head about its inappropriate new-agey feel. Dreyer's film is tough stuff, and the music should have had more of an edge to it, more real anguish. For instance, early Schoenberg-style free atonality might have worked. Also, the sung text in the oratorio competes with the onscreen title cards--no one should ever do that again for a silent film score, not if they truly respect the film.

Zazou dans le Metro wrote:

HerrSchreck wrote:I'm the biggest fan of jazz, avant and serial music (zappa my hugest hero in these parts)... but the antique world of silents is just not the terrain for it.

Well it's my turn to qualify my previous statement and, similarly, I put '"skronkers and honkers" in affectionate parenthesis to denote the loose assembly of musicians who congregate around the NY Downtown scene and their associates, rather than advocating the sound of squawking sax and fingernails down the blackboard for silents.
Are you really for banning all experimentation on this score mein guter Herr Schrecklich?? I personally thought that Marc Ribot's score for Aelita / Frisell's for the Keatons/ Geoff Smith's recent cymbalom scores for Murnau, to name but a few from an ever growing repertoire, were deeply respectful and sympathetic to their source. I totally agree with you about Art Zoyd et al but years ago I saw Passion of Joan with live accompaniment by the experimental Harmonie band which I would like to have seen given a dvd release, at least over and above the new meditation school pseudo classical stuff we got on the Criterion. Lastly let me re-iterate this is not a slight on those probably chosen for the Melies set but more a general request for a loosening up on commissions, particularly given the scope increasingly on offer via live events.

Available for pre-order from DD for $66.42

Do they deliver in Canada?
Can't believe I bought a Méliès DVD last week (Arte's) without knowing this: I'll have to sell it or something!
I'm quite curious regarding what are the movies, and what do they looks like. I even wonder if the set includes this color tinted version of Voyage dans la Lune found some years ago.
Whatever is the case as soon as I have the money I know where to spend it.

One thing though: I hope if the narration can't be removed that it will at least be good: Méliès' great-daughter on Arte's is no narrator and the narration of that version without the ending wherever it come from have this frustrating accent.

there better not be any narration, that was most annoying.

From the website:

Georges Méliès was also as a master of invention and enchantment. Included are the celebrated and famous journey films, among them A Trip to the Moon, The Impossible Voyage, The Kingdom of Fairies, The Merry Frolics of Satan, The Palace of the Arabian Nights, and The Conquest of the Pole. Fifteen films are reproduced from partial or complete hand-colored original prints, thirteen are presented with the original English narrations written by Méliès. A lovely half-hour introductory film, Le Grand Méliès (Georges Franju, 1953), features Méliès' widow (who performed in many Méliès films) and André Méliès portraying his father. The enclosed booklet includes a foreword by Norman McLaren, a superb essay by John Frazer, and an annotated index to the films by genre.

As french is my first and usual language it would be a bit weird for me to get an english narration while the original was without any doubt in french.

Is Flicker Alley planning on picking a design scheme and then going with it? They seem to have run through at least three schemes in under ten titles already. I own their edition of Phantom, and it's beautifully presented, but some of their other titles seem like box sets unrelated to their proper DVD releases, a couple with the added 'Blackhawk Films' logo etc. Are they doing okay sales-wise?

At Nitrateville.com, it's reported today that Flicker Alley (in conjunction with David Shepard) will release a large box set of early Fairbanks titles in November 2008.

And this is what David Shepard had to say as to the contents (from the thread linked by Danny Burk above):

David Shepard wrote:The present plan is for
(Triangle films)
FLIRTING WITH FATE
THE MATRIMANIAC
MYSTERY OF THE LEAPING FISH
(Artcraft Films)
WILD AND WOOLLY
REACHING FOR THE MOON
(UA Films)
A MODERN MUSKETEER (new restoration from 35mm, Mont Alto score)
WHEN THE CLOUDS ROLL BY (from 35mm with Mont Alto score)
THE MOLLYCODDLE
THE NUT
THE MARK OF ZORRO (all new edition from 35mm with Mont Alto score)
extensive stills gallery, brochure, some commentaries

Some of these may be Shepards transfers (Mollycoddle, Wild & Wooly) from the Kino vhs's (at least those w digital transfers). I guess since Image has slowed down their release of silents, Flicker is the spigot for Shepard.

Isnt reaching for the moon a talkie? I seem to recall seeing a clip from this.. he's running around a ship wooing some chick and doing flips & stuff w no shirt on.

HerrSchreck wrote:Isnt reaching for the moon a talkie? I seem to recall seeing a clip from this.. he's running around a ship wooing some chick and doing flips & stuff w no shirt on.

There are two Fairbanks films of the same title - 1917 and 1931 - I don't believe there is any plot connection between them, just reuse of the same title!

Organized with Jeff Masino & Flicker Alley:

Sunday March 9, 2008, 4:00 pm

Los Angeles Filmforum and Cinefamily present
UNSEEN MÉLIÈS
Tickets - $12/ $8 for members
http://www.silentmovietheatre.com/calendar/events.html
The Silent Movie Theatre
611 N Fairfax Avenue, Los Angeles, 90036
323-655-2510

In celebration of the first major home video retrospective of Georges
Méliès films anywhere in the world, Cinefamily presents an afternoon
of films by and about cinema pioneer, Georges Méliès, hosted by film
historian David Shepard. A genuine virtuoso, Méliès produced and
directed his films while also devising the narratives; designing the
sets, costumes and props; and frequently performing the leading parts.
The program will start off with a 35mm screening of Le Grand Méliès
(1953), by Georges Franju, featuring Méliès' widow (who performed in
many Méliès films) and André Méliès portraying his father. Assembled
from archival and private holdings from around the world, this program
will include several of Méliès' "trick" films and a presentation of
some of his most famous journey films, including a complete half-hour
showing of Conquest of the Pole (1912). Georges Méliès can now be
seen not only as a great pioneer but also as the most accomplished
filmmaker in the world during the first years of cinema.

UNSEEN MÉLIÈS:

INTRODUCTION
LE GRAND MÉLIÈS (1953, 35 mm, 31 min.)

Video Programme (PAL Digibeta):
MÉLIÈS' DISCOVERY OF CINEMA (comments)
Card Party (1896, 1 min)
The Vanishing Lady (1896, 1.25 min)
A Nightmare (1896, 1 min)

MÉLIÈS' MAGICAL MOVIES (comments)
The One-Man Band (1900, 1.5 min))
The Triple Conjurer and the Living Head (1900, 1.25 min)
Excelsior! The Prince of Magicians (1901, 2 min)
The Devil and the Statue (1901, 2 min)
Gulliver's Travels Among the Lilliputians (1902, 4 min)
The Kingdom of Fairies (1903, 16.5 min)

MISCHEVIOUS MÉLIÈS (comments)
Cakewalk Infernal (1903, 5.5 min)
Jupiter's Thunderballs (1903, 3.5 min)
The Cook In Trouble (1904, 4.5 min)
The Black Imp (1905, 4 min)
A Crazy Composer (1905, 4.5 min)
IMPOSSIBLE VOYAGES (comments)
The Eclipse (1907, 9.25 min)
Conquest of the Pole (1912, 30.5 min)
--------------
Los Angeles Filmforum is the city's longest-running organization
dedicated to weekly screenings of experimental film, documentaries,
and video art. This is our 31st year!

Filmforum is also raising funds. Sponsor a whole season for only
$5000, or become a member for $50, or anything in between. We're also
looking for a Sony DSR-11 video deck, which plays mini-DV and DV-Cam,
PAL and NTSC tapes. Filmforum is a 501(c)3 non-profit organization
which means your fiscal donations are fully tax deductible.

Coming Soon to Filmforum:

March 16 - Shoot Shoot Shoot part 2: Works of the London Film-Makers'
Co-operative

March 23 - You Pick 'Em 2! Films from Canyon Cinema picked by you! At
the Echo Park Film Center

March 30 - L.A. Video Artists: Allan Sekula

Also coming up, with Flicker Alley:

4/13 @ 6pm
la Roue
Presented by Cinefamily and Los Angeles Filmforum

Join The Cinefamily and Turner Classic Movies as we co-present the world premiere digital restoration of filmmaker Abel Gance’s extraordinary work, La Roue (1922), which was created from the best available prints and negatives from several countries, and which will be accompanied by a new orchestral score by composer Robert Israel. Gance’s masterwork is a tragic love story set in the grime and soot of the railway yards, told with astonishing cinematic technical advances. French filmmaker Jean Cocteau took note of the film’s transformative power by declaring, “There is cinema before and after La Roue, as there is painting before and after Picasso.” By 1923, Gance had established himself as France’s leading filmmaker, and this film cemented that reputation. Its sophisticated use of cutting was so innovative that according to Gance, Russian directors Sergei Eisenstein and Vsevolod Pudovkin traveled to France and personally thanked him for educating them in the art of editing.

Dir. Abel Gance, 1923, Digibeta, 273 min.
There will be a 30 minute break for dinner.
Tickets - $12/ $8 for members

Again at the Silent Movie Theatre

For those who doesn't live in L.A. - Turner Classic Movies will show J'Accuse (1919) and La Roue (1923) as well as a documentary Abel Gance: The Charm of Dynamite (1968) on April 27.

Got my Melies set today. Looks beautiful. Will report back after viewing some of the films...

First impressions of the Melies set:

This is a thing of beauty. Lovingly put together, the set includes 173 films organized chronologically. You can watch each disc's films as a sequence, or individually. Menus are easy to navigate.

The films look fantastic. Some of them have the original hand-coloring. Some are in bad shape, but I doubt there were better materials available, so we should be thrilled we're even seeing these films at all.

Each film has a title card giving the original French title and English translation. The booklet lists each film, its corresponding "Star Films No.", year, whether it's color or b&w, who provides music, and the genre. Music is very nice and appropriate, so far. The genre category is a hoot: besides "Trick/Magic" and "Dream Film," "Narrative/Drama" and "Comedy," we even get one example of "Erotic" (!). Pretty exciting stuff (well, you know what I mean).

One major flaw is that the films that were originally screened with live narration have a soundtrack with English narration, done by a man with a strong French accent. Ok, this is fine and all, but if you've got a man in the recording studio who knows French, why not have him record the original French narration as well and provide us with the option of hearing this? It's shameful that this wasn't done, because otherwise this would rank among the top 5 DVD box sets of all time. As it is--well, who I am I kidding--it still ranks up there that high. This set is indispensable!

All we need is to get some fan readings of the original French texts on mp3, timed to these films (there are less than a dozen with narration), so that the real film geeks can play these while watching Tunnel sous la manche, for example (which is unbelievably brilliant!).

Allow me to temper my displeasure at the lack of the inclusion of original French narration. According to the booklet, the English narrations are original, written by Georges Melies himself. If this is true, he must have composed English versions for export prints (?). Anyway, these are "original," apparently.

Ugh why the strong accent again? Oh well, still excited by the erotic stuffsize of the set.
I have a copy of some Méliès films with french narration, but it's mostly improvised and not quite good to hear. Wasn't the written narration just some guidelines?

Saturnome wrote:Wasn't the written narration just some guidelines?

Dunno. I haven't read the booklet carefully yet (if it even says anything about it), but would like to know the details. When I first saw Trip to the Moon it had no narration, and I think it and the others don't suffer from simply turning off the sound.

I learned more about the accent. The speaker is Serge Bromberg, proprietor of Lobster Films in France, and David Shepard's working partner. The English texts were themselves written in English by Melies (who had been partly educated in England and knew English) for reading in English territories. That they had Serge do them was just a decision by David & Serge. I was told (yesterday at the event with David Shepard & Jeff Masino) tha the narration was not improvised. That said, it does seem to be a benshi of sorts.

A Trip to the Moon has a music-only and a music + narration choice. But not all the ones with narration have that option.

Is there a list somewhere with all titles included in Milies set?

Adam wrote:The English texts were themselves written in English by Melies (who had been partly educated in England and knew English) for reading in English territories.

How were the movies presented in France - with French narration, or with none at all? The answer to that question is how the movies should have been presented on the DVD set.

Ashirg wrote:Is there a list somewhere with all titles included in Milies set?

There is a full list of contents here

More details on Flicker Alley's upcoming DVDs of J'Accuse and La Roue are now posted on their site.