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I've yet to watch my Criterion DVD (just arrived today), but I thought I'd share a tanka poem I wrote after watching Late Spring for the second time last year:

Not music so fine,
Nor the invitation of flesh;
Only love, chaste love
Can cool a morning's anger.
I surrender to the tide.

I'm very disappointed with the Criterion presentation of Late Spring. The contrast boosting destroys the Zen quality of the film. The almost constantly jittery frame makes watching this DVD almost unbearable. What a mess.

artfilmfan wrote:I'm very disappointed with the Criterion presentation of Late Spring. The contrast boosting destroys the Zen quality of the film. The almost constantly jittery frame makes watching this DVD almost unbearable. What a mess.

Uh-huh, totally agree. Can I buy yours?

Can I buy yours?

Nope. For now, I'll save it for the subtitles.

I would like to match the Criterion subtitles to my Shochiku DVD -- but I think the software I'd need to make a new DVD combinng these two would cost several hundred dollars. ;~{

My son never managed to finish his Princes YKF translation. ;~{

In any event -- he was doing this for a program that lets you watch DVDs on a computer with a substitute subtitle track. This doesn't generate anything that can be used on a stand-alone DVD player (and the notebook computer that we could hook up to our TV died).

Michael Kerpan wrote: .. (and the notebook computer that we could hook up to our TV died).

... from exhaustion.

Should we start selling cookies to raise money for that software to combine the Criterion subtitles with the Shochiku DVD? Think of other Ozu titles that can benefit from this: the Criterion "Floating Weeds" and "Good Morning" and the Australian "Autumn Afternoon".

Who's going to release an acceptable "Late Spring" with subtitles now? The Australian company that's been releasing Ozu films can't be counted on. Maybe Raro of Italy?

I'm working on subtitling a German silent film (significantly less work, since I've only the intertitles to worry about) that I've digitalized from VHS. It won't be all that hard. I imagine adding the subs from the CC to a different transfer wouldn't be all that difficult.

It isn't. Demultiplex the VOBs, take the SUP files from the Criterion and remultiplex them with the demultiplexed audio/video files from the other release, then burn the VOBs. The hardest part would be resynching the subtitles, since the timing wouldn't necessarily be the same on the other version (PAL vs. NTSC, different logos at the beginning, etc.).

davidhare wrote:Jeez! Piece of cake!!!

Just what I was thinking. ;~}

As to whether there will be a well-subbed, good-looking "Late Spring" in OUR lifetime? I'm beginning to have my doubts.

A very long wait for a very disappointing result. (At least I'm glad I'm not utterly alone in finding the Criterion transfer rather gruesome).

Not toally alone tho I'd be interested to hear why this one so severely, when so many (especially japanese masterpieces which are preserved as well as Washington's teeth) of CC features are black & bright boosted far out of the range possible during their release-era, their lines are far too razor sharp versus same, etc etc. Is it because this one is closer to your heart or you feel there are more artifacts in this because the elements are ragged, versus the tinkering done in most of their releases?

HerrSchreck wrote:Not toally alone tho I'd be interested to hear why this one so severely, when so many (especially japanese masterpieces which are preserved as well as Washington's teeth) of CC features are black & bright boosted far out of the range possible during their release-era, their lines are far too razor sharp versus same, etc etc. Is it because this one is closer to your heart or you feel there are more artifacts in this because the elements are ragged, versus the tinkering done in most of their releases?

This looks the worst of any of the Criterion DVDs of the b&w Ozu films in this respect.

And it diverges the most from the Shochiku -- which looks okay (though hardly great -- as great is probably impossible without an M-style all-out restoration -- which isn't going to happen).

Well my copy doesn't flicker - and the contrast seems just fine - it's certainly much better than my FilmFour off air VHS copy... So I'm getting on with enjoying it.. I have 9 Ozu films on decent quality DVDs with proper subtitles, and this is one of them... There are other Ozu DVDs which are not quite up to scratch and various VHSs, but as I say I like CC's LATE SPRING as it is...

Am awaiting my copy of OZU'S ANTI-CINEMA from U Mich... How did you like it Michael K?...

ellipsis7 wrote:Am awaiting my copy of OZU'S ANTI-CINEMA from U Mich... How did you like it Michael K?...

Haven't bought this -- and the BPL didn't have a loanable copy, last time I checked. One of these days ...

Michael, I felt like I noticed high contrast as well. There still seems to be a lot of detail though. I wonder if anyone has the Shochiku to compare, so we can see if any actual image info was lost from this alteration.

If you check the DVD Beaver comparison/review it shows that, though somewhat higher in contrast, there's a larger amount of detail available (including more gray) than the other versions shown. The Tartan looks so dark that a lot of detail has been lost. While I wouldn't mind something a little "warmer", as you put, that the Shochiku may or may not exhibit, I'm still overjoyed at the detail and luminoscity of the Criterion. Again, I'd like to see screen captures of the R2 release.

When the Ozu retrospective played Seattle last year, of the 20 films I saw, there was only one print (1930's That Night's Wife) that I thought looked worse that that for Late Spring. As a result, my expectations were low for the CC release, but overall I'm pleased. I haven't seen the Japanese release (personally, I have no use for a version without English subtitles), but the Criterion looks sharper and exhibits better contrast than the Bo Ying, Tartan, and Panorama from the screencap comparisons at DVD Beaver.

Perhaps someone (MEK?) could obtain suitable screen captures of the Shochiku and send them to Gary so they could be added to the comparison.

to anyone interested... dvd-lab pro has a full 30 day trial available, (cost 200$ to buy) and lets you (I believe) convert pal to ntsc for correct timing, and customize subtitle tracks, among many other things.

Well I, for one, thought it looked fantastic, and don't see what all the fuss is about. I am thankful for this wonderful release, and enjoyed the entire DVD package (film, transfer, extras, booklet) immensely.
10/10 from me.

Steven H wrote: While I wouldn't mind something a little "warmer", as you put, that the Shochiku may or may not exhibit, I'm still overjoyed at the detail and luminoscity of the Criterion. Again, I'd like to see screen captures of the R2 release.

Again this "warmth/luminosity" issue is one of the reasons I'm not as high on plazzys & LCD's as many. The warmth of tubes, the aura of color, to me look far more cinematic than flatscreens. Also of course the issue of viewing position vs screen altering image.

I picked up the MGM disc ACROSS 110TH STREET yesterday, and the first place I threw it up on was a studio top-line Sony wega. Now the lenses used on this film create a very milky, filmic effect. Watching this on the lcd it looked fucking underwater. It looked terrible. I took it home & put it up on my hi-rez large-screen tube MVL and it looked completely cinematic, with more grain, full of warmth & filmic beauty.

It's turning into a challenge nowadays to maintain a cinematic viewing experience at home owing to the digitization, sharpness excesses & color/contrast modulation on vintage films, LATE SPRING being a good example, though not as extreme an abuse on this disc (only in my opinion) as my colleague above. Perfect example of a ragged element being digitized into the septic tank is CC 7 Samurai.. about which I don't accept as excuse the fact that techniques available back then are the problem. Look at the beauty of the RED SHOES transfer or any other of a number of CC early discs which look relatively good despite their early in the catalog production.

What kind of tv are you using? What's MVL?

Multi Video Labs, from Princeton NJ.

There is an interview with Richard Pena about Late Spring on the Speakeasy with Dorian (from 19th June). The interview starts at about 40 mins in.

colinr0380 wrote:There is an interview with Richard Pena about Late Spring on the Speakeasy with Dorian (from 19th June). The interview starts at about 40 mins in.

Not to mention an interview with essayist Phillip Lopate discussing his new anthology, American Movie Critics: From the Silents Until Now.

Saw Tokyo Ga today - a nice watch, but slightly uneven: while the Ozu-related material was excellent (the interview with Yuuharu Atsuta was absolutely brilliant), I would have preferred Wenders to concentrate more on the great man and less on Tokyo miscellania. The scenes of life in early-80s Tokyo were often fascinating (especially the segment on pachinko machines), but I felt at times that Wenders didn't know when to stop filming (did he really need to chronicle a day's work at the imitation food plant?) I coulda done without the cheesy synth soundtrack too. Still, not a bad little film.

Werner Herzog's appearance was a treat.

Just discovered DVDTalk's review of the Late Spring set, and I think like this paragraph hits the nail on the head:

Though it's fun in a home movie way to watch Wenders' footage of a Japan of 20 years ago, his thesis has all the subtlety of Gallagher's sledgehammer act and the originality of Wolfgang Petersen's Poseidon: Japan has become a dehumanized nation with a technology fixation. Of course, why Wenders ever thought he'd find Ozu's world in a cramped, bustling Tokyo pachinko parlor or among a group of high school kids in Harajuku Hoko-ten dressed in 1950s fashions is a mystery. Wouldn't it have been better to find an old widower and his daughter in Kita-Kamamura and spend a few days with them?

Indeed.

King of Kong wrote:Saw Tokyo Ga today - a nice watch, but slightly uneven: while the Ozu-related material was excellent (the interview with Yuuharu Atsuta was absolutely brilliant), I would have preferred Wenders to concentrate more on the great man and less on Tokyo miscellania. The scenes of life in early-80s Tokyo were often fascinating (especially the segment on pachinko machines), but I felt at times that Wenders didn't know when to stop filming (did he really need to chronicle a day's work at the imitation food plant?) I coulda done without the cheesy synth soundtrack too. Still, not a bad little film.

I think you've noted what Michael K and I have pointed out previously: Tokyo-Ga isn't really an Ozu documentary, so it was always going to be a slight mismatch as an Ozu extra. It's Wenders' 'Japan' doc, and Ozu is there because he's part of WW's conception of 'Japaneseneess', which is, as you observe, problematic. And, as a documentarist, Wenders is no Herzog: it's definitely a lesser strand of his filmmaking. If you haven't seen it, track down Chris Marker's Sunless for a much more satisfying, almost contemporaneous, exercise in a similar veiin.