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I believe Criterion began windowboxing beyond the normal 1:33:1 ratio films with Seduced & Abandoned's 1:85:1, according to Souvenir and Beaver a few pages back on this thread.

souvenir wrote:Seduced and Abandoned becomes the first widescreen to be pictureboxed

gubbelsj wrote:I believe Criterion began windowboxing beyond the normal 1:33:1 ratio films with Seduced & Abandoned's 1:85:1, according to Souvenir and Beaver a few pages back on this thread.

On my widescreen tv I only see the windowbox on 1:33...I don't see it on anything else.

I don't remember it on Seduced and Abandoned, but that doesn't mean it isn't there and it's been a while since I watched it.

Going through the list of non-1:33 AR since Seduced and Abandoned, and I can't remember any others that were window-boxed.

Keep in mind that an anamorphic transfer of a 1.66 film HAS to have black bars on either side, since the anamorphic compression is based on a 1.78 ratio.

arsonfilms wrote:Keep in mind that an anamorphic transfer of a 1.66 film HAS to have black bars on either side, since the anamorphic compression is based on a 1.78 ratio.

You are correct. I'm sorry. I was looking at a bunch of 1:66 films. Yi Yi which is 1:85 does not has the black bars on the right and left sides. Thank god.

arsonfilms wrote:Keep in mind that an anamorphic transfer of a 1.66 film HAS to have black bars on either side, since the anamorphic compression is based on a 1.78 ratio.

So then Seduced and Abandoned was the only non-1:33 AR film to be released in windowbox? How odd....

According to Gary at the Beaver, the Robeson box set films are NOT windowboxed. This may bode well for future releases, and also give us an idea of how long in advance these transfers are done.

I'm not so sure of that. Criterion could have been working on the Robeson box set well before their new windowboxing policy which they started last year.

I recently took my Yojimbo/Sanjuro box set over to friend's house to view on his plasma screen. Sadly, I noticed that there were thin black bars on the right and left side of the image (as well as the top and bottom, but the later being due to the 2:35:1 aspect ratio). We then compared it to Criterion's Contempt and [b/The Life Aquatic[/b] (which were also 2:35:1) and they did not show thin black bars on the right and left of the image (only top and bottom as should be). Therefor, it appeared that Criterion also windowboxed the Yojimbo/Sanjuro movies as well. This is very sad news. So is Criterion windowboxing everything?

Does that mean that even if they stop windowboxing right now, it'll take close to 2 years for that release to surface?

Possibly, yes.

Anthony wrote:I recently took my Yojimbo/Sanjuro box set over to friend's house to view on his plasma screen. Sadly, I noticed that there were thin black bars on the right and left side of the image (as well as the top and bottom, but the later being due to the 2:35:1 aspect ratio).

I don't get black bars on the right and left side of the picture on my widescreen tv.

Tribe

I noticed the black bars on left and right sides of Sanjuro and Yojimbo on my lcd tv also. They were particularly noticeable because the tv is set for no overscan.

Tribe wrote:

Anthony wrote:I recently took my Yojimbo/Sanjuro box set over to friend's house to view on his plasma screen. Sadly, I noticed that there were thin black bars on the right and left side of the image (as well as the top and bottom, but the later being due to the 2:35:1 aspect ratio).

I don't get black bars on the right and left side of the picture on my widescreen tv.

That's because your TV does not display the full picture (same with mine). Your TV overscans the top and sides to some degree. Pop it into your computer, and note that the full picture is displayed, including the thin black bars on the side. Just got done watching Yojimbo myself...

Now with Sanjuro, going by dvdbeaver's comparison review, it looks like the windowboxing has actually chopped off (left out) material that is obviously present in the PAL versions. Could be the same case with Yojimbo, but no PAL versions were compared in that review.

So, question is, at least for these two: is the resolution the same as if they had not been windowboxed, and they've just tossed out (hidden) information that would have been there had they not been windowboxed? Lookiing like maybe so, as the images shown are all about the same size. (And, if so, why didn't they just leave the extra info there and not windowbox it?)

With the 4:3 windowboxing, as I recall, the image is shrunk somewhat on each side. So, possibly the windowboxed/letterboxed titles do not really lose any resolution (just info chopped off the sides), while the 4:3s do? I've not really watched more than one or two of either, so...

fdm wrote:That's because your TV does not display the full picture (same with mine). Your TV overscans the top and sides to some degree. Pop it into your computer, and note that the full picture is displayed, including the thin black bars on the side.

Right you are. Just popped Yojimbo into the iMac, and there they were.

I popped Yojimbo back into the tv ('cause I'm certain that my screen doesn't overscan), and now that I was looking for it, I indeed saw black left and right bars. I never noticed them before on this release because the tv's frame is black also. The bars are so minimal so as to be practically invisible unless I'm sitting right on top of the screen.

Same goes for the windowboxing on 1:33 AR films...very, very insubstantial, which has always made the reaction of some to the window boxing to be way over the top and out of proportion to me. But that's neither here nor there.

Yeah, this sucks. Criterion is now windowboxing 2:35:1 movies. I guess this is their way of screwing cinema lovers with widescreen TVs.

Anthony wrote:I guess this is their way screwing cinema lovers with widescreen TVs.

Funny you should mention that. Lee Kline in a recent Home Cinema interview: "It's been our mission here at the CC to screw cinema lovers in every way we can. But it's come to our attention that cinema lovers with widescreen TVs have thus far escaped our rampant screwing. Several years behind widescreen home use we are now making a concerted effort to screw them the same we have been screwing the others. We're confident that our latest batch of releases will screw cinema lovers regardless of monitor dimension."

Why don't you just move your chair a foot closer to the screen. That should take care of it I'd think.

apparently the new Paul Robeson box has not been windowboxed. looks like they are doing away with that practice... hopefully

jon wrote:apparently the new Paul Robeson box has not been windowboxed. looks like they are doing away with that practice...hopefully

jesus what a beautiful image. that's like a george sherman horizon

I'm not sure why this is happening but I just got a new 40" 1080p television, and I watched New Yorker's WEEKEND on it, and there was no windowboxing. It was a perfect 4:3 image with black bars on the side, but not on the top or bottom (such as when I watch it on my computer). Is my television smart enough to enlarge the image so it gets rid of the windowboxed padding, or is my television overscanning (which I would find hard to believe, it's a Sony Bravia).

Anyone have any thoughts? I'm 100% positive I'm not watching it on one of the ZOOM settings.

justeleblanc wrote:Is my television smart enough to enlarge the image so it gets rid of the windowboxed padding, or is my television overscanning (which I would find hard to believe, it's a Sony Bravia).

I used to think my Sony Bravia overscanned too, but when I switched DVD players, windowbox padding appeared where formerly it did not. So it may be your player.

Unless you're inputting through HDMI with the Sony receiving and displaying at some "pixel for pixel" mode, there will still be something like overscan, believe it or not. It's bullshit, I know, but that's how it is. The Toshiba LCDs have a "see exactly what you get" mode that compensates for this.

denti alligator wrote:Unless you're inputting through HDMI with the Sony receiving and displaying at some "pixel for pixel" mode, there will still be something like overscan, believe it or not.

Maybe that's it. With my previous DVD player, I was inputting through component cable.

I own two LCD widescreen displays and both overscan. I was able access the service menu on my Sony and eliminate the overscan to within 5px. So, just because you have a new 16x9 display doesn't mean it isn't cutting off some of the image. Which might be why Criterion still sees windowboxing as a viable process.

mbalson wrote:I own two LCD widescreen displays and both overscan. I was able access the service menu on my Sony and eliminate the overscan to within 5px. So, just because you have a new 16x9 display doesn't mean it isn't cutting off some of the image. Which might be why Criterion still sees windowboxing as a viable process.

Ummm, that's odd. My friend has a Pioneer Plasma, and there doesn't appear to be any overscan on it. Everything that Criterion has released with a windowboxed transfer on it, we can clearly see an inch of black boarder around the picture (on all sides if it is a 1:33 release, and on the left and right sides of the picture on Sanjuro/Yojimbo). It very distressing to think that the picture could be a little a larger without the windowboxing efffect.

denti alligator wrote:Unless you're inputting through HDMI with the Sony receiving and displaying at some "pixel for pixel" mode, there will still be something like overscan, believe it or not. It's bullshit, I know, but that's how it is. The Toshiba LCDs have a "see exactly what you get" mode that compensates for this.

Hrm. I wonder if that's it, though I'm not sure if our DVD player has an HDMI out. We use monster component cables and its a pretty solid picture. If the only issue is the overscan, which I never knew was a product of the DVD player rather than the TV, then I'll guess we'll just live with it until the DVD player breaks. It's a multi-regional hack that was a pretty sweet deal.