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yoshimori wrote:Seriously. One (the only?) purpose of such lists is to guide those who don't know all the movies/filmmakers on said lists to other they may like. So you like Beau travail and Mauvais sang? Maybe you should seek out some Desplechin. etc etc etc.

Exactly. Those who just want to score points in a "My film's greater than your film" row have probably misunderstood the purpose of this forum.

Thanks for the L'humanité recommendation. I'd seen this warmly praised elsewhere and had been thinking of seeking it out. I shall make a point of doing so now.

foggy eyes wrote:

yoshimori wrote:Dumont: L'humanité (1999)

At risk of alienating an embarrassment of riches, this would get my vote too.

Me too. I don't keep lists of films by country, so it'd take me too long to find out whether there's anything I consider better. Off the top of my head L'humanite gets it. But then there's La Belle noiseuse.

I didn't realise there were people who thought so highly of Those Who Love me Can Take the Train. It was an enjoyable film but extremely flawed. Then again, some of my dearest films are extremely flawed to others.

Some of these choices puzzle me in being selected as French. Man Bites Dog is Belgian isn't it, Trois Coleurs, well, how about European? Red is arguably Swiss, Haneke je ne crois pas. But these can be difficult to call. Polanski's Tess? TS Eliot?? French language then?

Personal factors make L'Appartement irresitible to me and I can watch it over and over and over again. One of my all time favourites from anywhere anytime. (I can't believe how beautiful Monica is with her earlier hairstyle and can't understand why she doesn't go back to it. And why do they do such terrible things to their women? Bohringer looking dowdy, like Carax made Binoche look drab in Les Amants, and as for Irreversible... which I would probably say is the best French film but not my favourite by a long way)

But instead of films, how about bits of films? Mauvais Sang does not do a great deal for me but Denis Lavant's run/dance from the film most certainly does, and it keeps the film on my shelf.

MichaelB wrote:I'm tempted to opt for something really left-field like Walerian Borowczyk's Docteur Jekyll et les femmes (1981), but that's only because Blanche is (fractionally) too old to qualify. Incidentally, why are two of Borowczyk's best films completely unavailable on legit DVD anywhere in the world?

But I cannot tell a lie: it's L'Argent all the way.

I can't think of a single other French film (and not too many from anywhere else) that's had the same impact on me. I first saw it when it came out - it was my first Bresson, and I remember being highly disconcerted by it at first because he seemed to be wilfully disregarding the rules of basic film grammar (bear in mind I was still in my teens and had a far narrower idea of the medium's possibilities). But about five or ten minutes in I realised what he was doing (or, in his case, wasn't doing, and why) and from then on the film became painfully riveting. And even a dozen viewings on, it still grips like a molewrench: the last ten minutes in particular are almost unbearable to watch.

Agree about Blanche, never seen the other. Blanche was a BFI was it not? Perhaps there is hope and perhaps with his higher profile we will see these two appear.

I am going to throw my credibility to the winds now but I am not too bothered because like Sculder, I want to believe...

Can someone post something or direct me to something which will let me "get" Bresson, as Rosenbuam puts it, because I most certainly do not "get" him right now, and I know I should, even if I still did not much like him. (I used to feel the same about Ozu until I saw Robert McKee's intro to An Autumn Afternoon and short though it was and no doubt fairly basic, it was enough and he opened the door for me and I have never looked back). Nobody ever seems to do anything other than speak very elliptically about his work (can't complain, I am the same with Kieslowski) and that opens no doors for me.

I watched about 6/7 of his films last year, all in a "season", and was looking through the essays in the Prager Film Library book at the same time but it did not help.

I quite enjoyed the earlier ones, Les Anges Du Peche, though more for the look of it, and Joan of Arc was, eh, not bad. But the further it went on, the less I connected and I found the likes of Balthasar, Mouchette and L'Argent almost unintentionally funny in their doom and gloom. (Sorry sorry sorry.) They reminded me of an EastEnders Xmas special...

So is it a case of you either get him or you don't, or can someone help me out here? (He is not the only director I don't get of course, but he is the only one I am really bothered about not getting.)

Felix wrote:I found the likes of Balthasar, Mouchette and L'Argent almost unintentionally funny in their doom and gloom

I wonder. Sometimes when watching these I got the sense that Bresson just might have had a rather savage sense of humor, but would never deign to allow the world to see him laugh. At times it almost felt like one was watching something Bunuel, but with no trace of a smile whatsoever.

Michael Kerpan wrote:Sometimes when watching these I got the sense that Bresson just might have had a rather savage sense of humor, but would never deign to allow the world to see him laugh.

Agreed. The donkey's braying interrupting the music at the beginning of Balthazar ALWAYS results in laughs in the theater.

And Four Nights of a Dreamer is hilarious!

Some of these choices puzzle me in being selected as French. Man Bites Dog is Belgian isn't it, Trois Coleurs, well, how about European? Red is arguably Swiss, Haneke je ne crois pas. But these can be difficult to call. Polanski's Tess? TS Eliot?? French language then?

Can any of Godard's films be called French, then?

Felix wrote:Can someone post something or direct me to something which will let me "get" Bresson

Have you tried Joseph Cunneen's book? It's an excellent introduction to Bresson (one chapter per film), very accessible and a good "way in" to his films.

yoshimori wrote:Agreed. The donkey's braying interrupting the music at the beginning of Balthazar ALWAYS results in laughs in the theater.

And Four Nights of a Dreamer is hilarious!

I haven't seen the latter film -- but in the earlier films I sort of feel that Bresson doesn't ever really give you much in the way of "permission" to laugh.

There is definitely intended comedy in Four Nights. It's Bobby B's most enjoyable film. His other films do get laughs. Devil in particular.

Don Lope de Aguirre wrote:

Some of these choices puzzle me in being selected as French. Man Bites Dog is Belgian isn't it, Trois Coleurs, well, how about European? Red is arguably Swiss, Haneke je ne crois pas. But these can be difficult to call. Polanski's Tess? TS Eliot?? French language then?

Can any of Godard's films be called French, then?

I'm not sure I was clear enough in what I was saying. You will note I used lots of question marks. I don't know myself how one defines this, though Blow Up has to be English and Zabriskie Point American.

I don't know why I wouldn't call Godard's films French. He is French, the actors are, mostly, French, the films are made in France, in the French language, but I am speaking of his films up to Weekend, thereafter I am not familiar with his work.

Michael Kerpan wrote:

yoshimori wrote:Agreed. The donkey's braying interrupting the music at the beginning of Balthazar ALWAYS results in laughs in the theater.

And Four Nights of a Dreamer is hilarious!

I haven't seen the latter film -- but in the earlier films I sort of feel that Bresson doesn't ever really give you much in the way of "permission" to laugh.

I wouldn't have thought an audience of Bressonistas would give me permission to laugh either, I would expect to be taken outside and beaten to a bloody pulp for even smirking... But is interesting to see these comments.

Kinsayder wrote:

Felix wrote:Can someone post something or direct me to something which will let me "get" Bresson

Have you tried Joseph Cunneen's book? It's an excellent introduction to Bresson (one chapter per film), very accessible and a good "way in" to his films.

No, but thanks. The Praeger book is good as well and follows the same format with well informed essays, I presume (Durgnat, Leo Murray, Danile Millar, Charles Barr) but... Even Geoff Andrew in his Bloomsbury film guide doesn't manage it, and I usually am pretty much on programme with him.

Barmy wrote:There is definitely intended comedy in Four Nights. It's Bobby B's most enjoyable film. His other films do get laughs. Devil in particular.

I once saw a double bill of Four Nights of a Dreamer and Les Affaires publiques (or, more accurately, Béby inaugure), his long-thought-lost slapstick short from 1934. Both were hilarious - intentionally.

Felix wrote:I don't know why I wouldn't call Godard's films French. He is French, the actors are, mostly, French, the films are made in France, in the French language, but I am speaking of his films up to Weekend, thereafter I am not familiar with his work.

Godard is Swiss. But yes, it would be ridiculous to call his films Swiss.

Strolling through my journal, I pulled out all the French films (1977-now) that made me happy.

The Science of Sleep (Gondry)
Come Undone (Lifshitz)
Wild Side (Lifshitz...he gotta be my twin brother because his films mirror my life experiences so ridiculously much)
L' Argent (Bresson)
L' Humanite (Dumont)
Those Who Love Me Can Take the Train (Chereau)
L' Homme Blesse (Chereau)
Voyage en Douce (Deville)
They Came Back (Campillo)
I Can't Sleep (Denis)
Beau Travail (Denis)
Friday Night (Denis)
Wild Reeds (Techine)
A nos amours (Pialat)
Garcon Stupide (Baier)
I Stand Alone (Noe)
Irreversible (Noe)
Cold Water (Assayas)
Time Regained (Ruiz)
In My Skin (de Van)

GringoTex wrote:Godard is Swiss. But yes, it would be ridiculous to call his films Swiss.

If Godard's films are Swiss, then by the same token Casablanca must be Hungarian and Some Like It Hot Austrian.

GringoTex wrote:

Felix wrote:I don't know why I wouldn't call Godard's films French. He is French, the actors are, mostly, French, the films are made in France, in the French language, but I am speaking of his films up to Weekend, thereafter I am not familiar with his work.

Godard is Swiss. But yes, it would be ridiculous to call his films Swiss.

Oh bugger... I agree with the second part and I stand corrected on the first. Also should have said je ne sais pas for Haneke, not je ne crois pas.

GringoTex wrote:

Felix wrote:I don't know why I wouldn't call Godard's films French. He is French, the actors are, mostly, French, the films are made in France, in the French language, but I am speaking of his films up to Weekend, thereafter I am not familiar with his work.

Godard is Swiss. But yes, it would be ridiculous to call his films Swiss.

It would be ridiculous to call his whole oeuvre Swiss, but some of his films genuinely are, whether it's because they were made there, or commissioned/funded by the Swiss.

For example; Operation Beton, Slow Motion, Detective and Liberty and Homeland are all Swiss to varying degrees. I believe the first and the last are entirely Swiss.

Take it to the "Best Swiss Films" thread.

I've never seen a Swiss film that wasn't a Godard short or a co-production. Bless 'em. There's probably more Londoners than Swiss, we can't expect too much from them.

Cinetwist wrote:There's probably more Londoners than Swiss, we can't expect too much from them.

The idea of a correspondence between population size and (innovative) film production doesn't work; e.g. Denmark has a smaller population than Switzerland, but it spawned the Dogme movement.

Sorry, this is totally off-topic.

True. I haven't seen too many Dogme films but they were all interesting. Although I bet few were completely Danish. Ahh, semantics and arbitrary borders.

At 300,000, the population of Iceland is a tiny fraction of Switzerland's (smaller than several even quite medium-sized cities, in fact), and yet it's produced a number of halfway decent films - and not just Fridrik Thor Fridriksson's output either.

And the Czech Republic's population isn't much bigger than Switzerland's, and its film output speaks for itself.

I wonder if the Alpine scenery saps the will to make films - Austria isn't exactly renowned for its film industry either, and most of its major talents from Billy Wilder to Michael Haneke ended up emigrating.

It is odd, isn't it? There is, of course, Alain Tanner. After reading a feature on Bulle Ogier in a FilmComment several years ago, I've been hoping for a revival of La Salamandre. Has anyone had an opportunity to see it?

Another obvious factor detrimental to filmmaking in Switzerland is that there are three main official languages (four including Romansh), each with its own regional identity. The Babel problem.