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ellipsis7 wrote:TOKYO TWILIGHT on the Tartan is quite dark, although I too would like to see a direct comparison with the Eclipse version... Agree that Tartan GOOD MORNING is light years ahead of the CC version, while I've already noted the one fatal flaw in the Tartan EQUINOX FLOWER...

I believe the Shochiku "Tokyo Twilight" DVD is also pretty dark.

Tartan should at least have provided translated lyrics for the unsubbed songs in "Equinox Flower" as an insert in the set's booklet (or something of the sort).

ellipsis7 wrote:TOKYO TWILIGHT on the Tartan is quite dark, although I too would like to see a direct comparison with the Eclipse version...

Tartan top - Criterion bottom

The Criterion stills appear to be a tad sharper...are they not supposed to?

Tribe

That's great... Eclipse/Criterion has more contrast, is sharper, more detailed & slightly brighter in highlights it appears...

That's great...

Maybe so, but how come it isn't progressive? Just a Shochiku-port with English subtitles? Combing is NOT cool.

Can someone give an advice about this transfer. Is the Eclipse box set good enough to upgrade my Panorama DVD collection? Tartan is still an option, but I don't know if its a major improvement over Panorama DVDs.
Thank you.

Tomas wrote:Can someone give an advice about this transfer. Is the Eclipse box set good enough to upgrade my Panorama DVD collection?

See for yourself at the Beaver.

I just received my box, and am pretty pleased with all 5 films, noting the slight problem which the Beaver notes with TOKYO TWILIGHT, and the reason for it...

Mine's in the mail. I'm glad I'm getting it, despite DVDTalk's talk of ghosting, flickering and whatnot.

How bittersweet.

Yeah, mine shipped from Deep Discount last week. It's always easy to start looking a gift horse in the mouth when it comes to DVD these days, but I am just glad to get decent prints of Ozu available to us at all!

Not to mention, with the rebates at DDDVD I got the set for $35!

Its a great bargain but I was really disappointed in the movies compared to the existing Ozu DVDs available. Maybe its like only seeing The Grapes of Wrath, My Darling Clementine, The Quiet Man and The Searchers - the rest of Ford might not measure up.

Shin Saburi dominates a couple of the movies and he is monumentally unexpressive. The younger actors are also flat, their awkward readings reminded me of the younger performances in late Hawks films (Red Line 7000, Rio Lobo etc). Late Autumn was such an unfocused, even lazy, reworking of Late Spring, I hope it hasn't ruined the earlier film for me.

Of course there are also many privileged moments which makes the whole project worthwhile. Most of these involve Chishu Ryu, seen too little in all but one. He shines in that one - Tokyo Twilight - exasperated with his silent, forlorn teenage daughter who he is unable to reach.

One of the reasons that I decided to buy the set was my impression that Chishu Ryu had smaller parts in most of the films. For quite a while, I thought that I did not care for Ozu, but after watching several of his films I realized that it was Chishu Ryu that put me off and not Ozu. In fact, I really grew to love Ozu's films and his sparse style. The less Chishu Ryu-centric films are my favorites of the ones that I have seen. Ozu certainly has a way of extracting great performances from females.

Mr Sheldrake wrote:Its a great bargain but I was really disappointed in the movies compared to the existing Ozu DVDs available. Maybe its like only seeing The Grapes of Wrath, My Darling Clementine, The Quiet Man and The Searchers - the rest of Ford might not measure up.

Well, if any of the films in the Eclipse set are Ozu's equivalent of The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence -- hell, or even Donovan's Reef! -- count me in!

I have already seen "Tokyo Twilight" and "Early Spring" and they are not masterpieces as "Early Summer", "Tokoyo Story" and "Late Spring", but they are masterworks, as usual from Ozu. But I have to say that I am a Ozu addict...

And contrary to thethirdman, I love Chishu Ryu's characters.

Mr Sheldrake wrote:Shin Saburi dominates a couple of the movies and he is monumentally unexpressive. The younger actors are also flat, their awkward readings reminded me of the younger performances in late Hawks films (Red Line 7000, Rio Lobo etc). .

Shin Saburi in his earlier roles (even for Ozu in "Toda Family") was pretty feisty. If he was reserved here in Equinox Flower (and elsewhere), it was at Ozu's express direction. I think his performances in these films is just fine (even great in EF). I would say he IS a bit too affable (and perfect) in "Flavor of Green Tea over Rice" -- but not in any of these.

Mr Sheldrake wrote:Late Autumn was such an unfocused, even lazy, reworking of Late Spring, I hope it hasn't ruined the earlier film for me..

I don't see anything lazy about this film.

Mr Sheldrake wrote:Of course there are also many privileged moments which makes the whole project worthwhile. Most of these involve Chishu Ryu, seen too little in all but one. He shines in that one - Tokyo Twilight - exasperated with his silent, forlorn teenage daughter who he is unable to reach.

I agree -- Chishu Ryu does a fine job of presenting an essentially pathetic and irresponsible (and even destructive) father in "Tokyo Twilight".

tryavna wrote:Well, if any of the films in the Eclipse set are Ozu's equivalent of The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence -- hell, or even Donovan's Reef! -- count me in!

Yes -- there are equivalents to these (at least) in this set. ;~}

For a Ford 5-pack I was thinking more along the lines of

The Wings of Eagles
Gideon of Scotland Yard
The Last Hurrah
The Horse Soldiers
Two Rode Together

In Late Summer the laziness I detected included the endless scenes of Shin Saburi and his two cronies tediously analyzing their dreary trick on Hara's daughter. Ozu didn't seem to have much else on his mind so why not indulge his favorites, or so it seemed to me.

I can see why Criterion didn't give these title single releases. Like the Early Bergman, they are essential to completists, without being so for those uninterested in deification.

I'm hoping Criterion is holding Early Autumn for a full scale release and that it turns out be a last masterpiece. Carrying on the Ford analogy, I consider 7 Women, much to my amazement (I used to think it was an embarrasment), his late masterpiece.

Mr Sheldrake wrote:In Late Summer the laziness I detected included the endless scenes of Shin Saburi and his two cronies tediously analyzing their dreary trick on Hara's daughter. Ozu didn't seem to have much else on his mind so why not indulge his favorites, or so it seemed to me.

You are totally mis-reading the film. The potential destructiveness of the paternalistic meddling of the cronies is an important aspect of the film. They consider their inept matchmaking actions "fun" -- while these are causing great distress to their supposed "beneficiaries". You need to see their childish glee juxtaposed with its actual impact.

I'm hoping Criterion is holding Early Autumn for a full scale release and that it turns out be a last masterpiece. .

There are serious problems with the first reel or so of Shochiku's materials for Autumn Afternoon (both in print form and DVD form). I suspect Criterion will not release this until some solution is found (or until it becomes clear no solution will be found).

The film itself is, indeed, a masterpiece -- though (given your response to Late Autumn) you may consider it just another lazy rip-off of Late Spring.

Michael Kerpan wrote:You are totally mis-reading the film. The potential destructiveness of the paternalistic meddling of the cronies is an important aspect of the film. They consider their inept matchmaking actions "fun" -- while these are causing great distress to their supposed "beneficiaries". You need to see their childish glee juxtaposed with its actual impact.

I read these scenes the same way, there didn't seem to be anything subtle about it, I felt like wringing their necks. The tedium comes with repetition, the point being hammered home.

Oh well, Sheldrake

Different strokes for different folks.

You have my permission to dismiss the film if I have your permission to love it.

Mr Sheldrake wrote:The Horse Soldiers
Two Rode Together

Absolutely nothing wrong with either of these under-appreciated Ford outings.

I agree, however, that the other three you listed are weak. (Wings of Eagles has got to be one of the most boring films ever made by a major director during his prime.) Still, I have a certain fondness for T.E.B. Clarke's dialogue in Gideon.

I guess my point was if one's experience of Fords westerns was only My Darling Clementine and The Searchers it is probable that Horse Soldiers and Two Rode Together might strike one as huge disappointments. Both Fords I've seen countless times and have enjoyed them, although I think both are minor. I would nominate The Long Grey Line as Fords nadir. At least in Wings there is some interesting Wayne/Ohara marital discord scenes to compensate for the male bonding tomfoolery.

I feel bad making my first post an anti-Ozu statement. After a quick glance through the forum it seems most criticism is directed to print quality and proper aspect ratio rather than content. There are a few Ozu movies I absolutely love.

I'm a lapsed auterist who once believed in the old joke "Homer nods, but Hitchcock never!" I'll grant I'm old and impatient nowadays, but I still find it interesting to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of great artists. And I love disagreement, thats how I still learn.

Are you suggesting Setsuko Hara & Maureen O'Hara are somehow blood relatives?...

Mr Sheldrake wrote:I feel bad making my first post an anti-Ozu statement. .

Feel free to be as anti-Ozu as you like here.

But I still see your criticism as a bit unreasonable. It is just possible that an Ozu film, while not reaching the heights of "Late Spring" and "Tokyo Story" might still nonetheless be worthy of respect and enjoyable. I remember feeling a bit disappointed with "Equinox flower" the first time I saw it (though I re-considered, with further acquaintance). But I never saw this as indicative of artistic turpitude on Ozu's part.

You seem to be completely writing off some rather good films, on the basis of a single viewing -- as well as questioning Ozu's creative bona fides (by assuming that his "laziness" was responsible for the films' lack of appeal to you). Seems like a bit of a stretch to me.

I will give them all another look (or two) and hopefully I will be more perceptive.