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I think people were just trying to relate the Hoffman news to the larger mystery of the odd Amazon listings for Canal titles, etc.

Askew wrote: I don't think Chungking Express going out of print had anything to do with Studio Canal.

Chungking Express = Miramax, which was bought by Studio Canal / Lionsgate.

I do hope this is more than a one-off situation as it is more than clear at this point that Lionsgate has no interest in releasing Studio Canal films in the US. So it doesn't make any sense for Studio Canal to just be sitting on these films, rather than exploiting their largest market. I suppose a lot of people would be pushing for a Criterion release, rather than nothing happening (or Lionsgate eventually putting out a $20 DVD-R).

The timing alongside the potential Amazon Third Man return, and other odd Studio Canal appearances lately (Tati, Vanishing, Robeson set) - all seem to point to a thawing of relations between the two companies.

Chungking Express = Miramax, which was bought by Studio Canal / Lionsgate.

I think Studio Canal got the European distribution rights to the Miramax stuff through Lionsgate, but I don't believe they have anything to do with the U.S. rights as Lionsgate has them straight up. So even if Criterion got Studio Canal titles back I doubt that would include Chungking Express (though Lionsgate has licenced a couple of titles to them so anything is possible).

sir_luke wrote:I think people were just trying to relate the Hoffman news to the larger mystery of the odd Amazon listings for Canal titles, etc.

And I get that. But I honestly just don't understand why people don't go more than a week around here looking for signs out of print titles are coming back. They aren't. There is a legal agreement that they won't. Until that changes, nothing is going to change, short of these one-offs.

I thought Kim Hendrickson made it pretty clear at the Wexner talks that the studio canal films are not coming back anytime soon.

Drucker wrote:And I get that. But I honestly just don't understand why people don't go more than a week around here looking for signs out of print titles are coming back. They aren't. There is a legal agreement that they won't. Until that changes, nothing is going to change, short of these one-offs.

As evidenced by the four month gap between posts above, I guess.

Ribs wrote:Not only is Third Man listed as available as temporarily out of stock as MSRP on Amazon, but also Army of Shadows (and Leon Morin, Priest) - these went up the same night as the June Criterion releases on Amazon. Could an announcement of stuff coming back be coming?

Leon Morin, Priest is actually in stock on Amazon. The DVD is going for $10.99 right now and the Blu-ray for $38.49. Both available via Amazon Prime.

I'm actually not surprised by this. I don't think the title has been in high demand since it went out of print (I could be wrong).

RSTooley wrote:

Ribs wrote:Not only is Third Man listed as available as temporarily out of stock as MSRP on Amazon, but also Army of Shadows (and Leon Morin, Priest) - these went up the same night as the June Criterion releases on Amazon. Could an announcement of stuff coming back be coming?

Leon Morin, Priest is actually in stock on Amazon. The DVD is going for $10.99 right now and the Blu-ray for $38.49. Both available via Amazon Prime.

I'm actually not surprised by this. I don't think the title has been in high demand since it went out of print (I could be wrong).

Yeah, it's pretty steadily stayed at the MSRP mark, and Army of Shadows has never been that high either (around $50 last I looked seemed to be the average). It's not in stock via Amazon though; it's in stock at an Amazon-fulfilled provider, and the actual Amazon listing is the same as the other Canal titles.

Just a general update: The Third Man is no longer being displayed as being sold by Amazon. Who the hell knows what is going on over there at Amazon.com. Either way, I put in an order, so it will be interesting to see what happens from here.

RSTooley wrote:Just a general update: The Third Man is no longer being displayed as being sold by Amazon. Who the hell knows what is going on over there at Amazon.com. Either way, I put in an order, so it will be interesting to see what happens from here.

The others (Army of Shadows, Flamenco Trilogy) are still being sold by Amazon. Interesting.

If this was some sort of major fuck-up on Amazon's part though that never gets fulfilled one way or another, they're sure going to hear from a lot of angry customers!

Man, I remember when the Flamenco Trilogy was going for a zillion bucks.

I wish we knew clearly what is being out of print, what is being upgraded, what is getting repackaged, what is being dvd/blu combo or not, book or no book..etc... It's frustrating to your customers, Criterion.

Uhm, with the exception of the Tati titles, everything is still out of print as it was formally announced. Everything else you read continues to be random speculation with no conflicting information coming from Criterion.

Drucker wrote:Uhm, with the exception of the Tati titles, everything is still out of print as it was formally announced. Everything else you read continues to be random speculation with no conflicting information coming from Criterion.

Well, Criterion does seem to let things go or suddenly come back into print - without any warning. The Janus set, Paul Robeson set, etc rather came out of nowhere - as they contain Studio Canal films, and were OOP for more than a year(s).

I suppose a lot has been speculation - especially regarding Studio Canal, but when one source confirmed Tales of Hoffman was coming back (possibly refuted now), and things show up on Amazon without warning (much like the Robeson set), it isn't too difficult to start dreaming. I know Lionsgate has the contract with Studio Canal to distribute titles for the next however many years, but it is interesting when random one-offs start making appearances - which seem to indicate cracks/loopholes in the Lionsgate deal (when does that contract end btw?)

As to Cinephrenic's comments - it would be nice if Criterion has something similar to Arrow's blog post about OOP films, running-lows, etc - as things seem to be all over the place, what with random Dual Formats switching to separate editions, books/booklet content disappearing for some editions, repackagings, etc - it can give you a headache just trying to track down everything and figure out what's going on (I say as the person keeping track of these things in the OOP thread )

For what it's worth, Hulu Plus has Le Cercle Rouge and Army of Shadows via Lionsgate but both expire in 5 days, e.g. the end of this month. :-k

Studio (and presumably licensed-to-studio) films don't seem to stay on Hulu long, so I doubt that's of significance.

Noiradelic wrote:Studio (and presumably licensed-to-studio) films don't seem to stay on Hulu long, so I doubt that's of significance.

Likely just the confluence of coincidentals, but those Melvilles have been up on Hulu for at least 2 years. Also when Miramax took The Young Girls of Rochefort down, the Demy set was released shortly afterward.

Minkin wrote:which seem to indicate cracks/loopholes in the Lionsgate deal (when does that contract end btw?)

Early 2010. I gotta think that SC cannot be happy with Lionsgate's handling of their US distribution. They released seven Blu-rays total in that time, with only two coming since 2011. The whole idea behind SC giving the licensing to LG was to create a consolidated brand recognition, so that has failed miserably. If LG isn't willing to give the effort to market their titles in the US, then why not go back to Criterion? Sure, they won't get the "StudioCanal Collection" branding on the packaging, but compared to LG's complete disregard for making these titles available to US consumers in the first place that in theory would matter far less to SC at this point then being to actually sell the films.

The sad thing is that we all saw LG's fumbling of the SC ball when it happened, having just witnessed how they sat on the majority of the Republic library for years after licensing it from Paramount.

So - here's hoping to common sense prevailing and Criterion getting these back. Start with returning the OOP titles, then continue upgrading more previously DVD only releases.

In a mildly interesting development, Pierrot le Fou is now available on Amazon, as The Third Man, Army of Shadows, etc. are.

I emailed Jon Mulvaney concerning the StudioCanal titles appearing on Amazon and got this reply:

"If we should ever recover the rights to any of our out-of-print titles, we will happily re-release them. However, to the best of my knowledge, at this time we have no plans to re-release any of our out-of-print titles."

Conclude what you will. I am not surprised, but still disappointed.

RSTooley wrote:I emailed Jon Mulvaney concerning the StudioCanal titles appearing on Amazon and got this reply:

"If we should ever recover the rights to any of our out-of-print titles, we will happily re-release them. However, to the best of my knowledge, at this time we have no plans to re-release any of our out-of-print titles."

Conclude what you will. I am not surprised, but still disappointed.

That's the boilerplate response to anything with the words "out of print" in them. They most certainly do have plans to re-release some of their OOP titles (see Handmade Films, plus the WB titles most likely + some of the MGM films seem likely at this point, but at least the Handmade Films are a near certainty).

@captveg - Sorry, I meant the licensing agreement between Studio Canal and Lionsgate. I think it was originally for three years, and then they extended it /renewed it a year or two ago.

Seems like the "Studio Canal Collection" has been nothing but a disaster - what with nobody buying them, so they drop the MSRP in 1/2, and still the OOP Criterions sell better in most cases. That Lionsgate has passed up so many exciting films that you'd think any moron could make a buck off of (it isn't exactly difficult for Lionsgate - just Copy + Paste whatever the UK release is). I do hope that the timing of the Melville films is not just coincidental -as it seems to pair well with the mysterious Amazon re-appearances. That said, I could imagine the Hulu stream cutting into Lionsgate disc profits - since what do you think a consumer would most likely do: Buy the Criterion OOP movie; buy the often region-free UK alternative; watch the Hulu stream; youtube/torrent; or Lionsgate's shitty DVD-R?

Pierrot le Fou is now available on Amazon

Interesting! Perhaps Third Man sold so well as to be out of stock already; as if it was all just a mistake, it would be odd of them to keep adding films. Sorry Drucker, I know you don't enjoy any of this, but hell, its a Studio Canal + Criterion thread, its of course going to be full of idle speculations/hopes/dreams - If you don't want to trod through this for real news of OOP films officially coming back, I'll post the info in the Criterion OOP thread when it becomes a reality.

Minkin wrote:Seems like the "Studio Canal Collection" has been nothing but a disaster - what with nobody buying them, so they drop the MSRP in 1/2, and still the OOP Criterions sell better in most cases.

Personally, I've never even seen any StudioCanal Collection releases up for sale whenever I've gone out. Or do they not sell them at Barnes and Noble stores?

Pierrot le Fou is now available on Amazon

It's only the DVD edition, though. The BD is still unavailable.

It could very well simply be Amazon warehouses having found some stock lost somewhere. It happened already in the past (that's how I bought the Carlos Saura Flamenco set).

All of Criterion's OOP Essential Art House releases are back in stock at Amazon for $14.99 except Le jour se leve

Gervaise
Kapo
Last Holiday
Mayerling

EDIT: Sorry, I see these are all available from Marketplace sellers but fulfilled by Amazon

So, the order I placed for The Third Man still shows no signs of shipping soon, not even an expected date. Thinking this was a fuck-up, and it's time I cancel my order and get my money back (I used a gift card, which was charged immediately). How about everyone else?