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Posted: **Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:32 am**

Felix wrote:I wonder how many actual sales MoC lose through downloading, no matter how many copies are downloaded. I doubt that such people would buy the discs, regardless of price or format. The Naruse may be an exception due to the strategy of releasing the films as a box and the associated pricing. Some may then have downloaded, checked them out, and decided they did not wish to proceed with buying; those people may have bought at least one DVD had they been released as stand alone discs. FFS, the vast, and I mean vast, majority of people out there have never heard of Naruse, however important he may be in Japan or on fora like these (the vast majority are only vaguely aware of Ozu or Mizoguchi). I have said before that I thought it was the wrong strategy but I also acknowledge that it is Nick running the label, not me, and what do I know about running a DVD label.

I did eventually buy both sets and would buy another but I waited until I saw them a lot cheaper online before I did dip. For the record, I do not download so have no pony to ride here (though I could do my own covers, etc, as I do repackage some legitimate releases if I do not like the cover or can find better information online to do my own booklets.) And if we are talking of lost sales, where do libraries fit in, or people who buy second-hand?

Fact is : maybe the people who downloaded the Naruse boxset liked it so much they found it was in fact a interesting box to buy, and went to buy it. Or, even better, they found out that MoC were real good at what they're doing, and went to buy 5 or 6 of their releases.
And you're also right with libraries and second-hand. Plus, I would say that they can carry a lot of piracy too ("I rent, I copy, I give back / I sell in second-hand") but there, how could anybody know ?

But, you're unfortunately right, Naruse is not, with Mizoguchi, Ozu and Shinoda, a well-known Japanese-filmmaker. Honestly, the cliché would be to say that only Kurosawa is a mainstream Japanese--classic filmmaker, but I think it's pretty accurate.
And, as I was saying, I think that this is the main point. It's a problem of culture, of education. If people would know at first who is Naruse and how good are some of their movies, maybe more people would start considering watching some of them. And then, they will discover what is this collection of DVD, Masters of something, the brand with all the old movies nobody knows about.

Posted: **Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:45 am**

To try and wrap this up... I think our main mistake was to release the Naruse as a boxset with such a heavy thick book. We got overexcited and had visions of this set doing really well, and then we could move straight into doing VOLUME 2 and VOLUME 3, but after a good start, a number of months later the sales petered out, and it really wasn't looking worthwhile to do further volumes in the same way.

Naruse is on my personal wishlist. I'm very curious to know if there's going to be an Eclipse set, just so I could aim at titles other than those... I'll humbly enquire at Criterion Towers.

We've got titles lined up through to next Summer and I'm having some time off at the end of the year, so I'll see what we can do around January when we're looking for new titles again.

Posted: **Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:48 am**

peerpee wrote: We've got titles lined up through to next Summer and I'm having some time off at the end of the year, so I'll see what we can do around January when we're looking for new titles again.

Come on, Nick, give us a few hints!

I'll probably be ordering the Naruse box set in the next few days, if that means anything. I found out that buying directly from Eureka is even cheaper than that Amazon Marketplace link I showed you.

Posted: **Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:12 am**

This is not new information really, just confirmation:

The Lubitsch Boxset and THE BURMESE HARP have slipped to January 2010.

A NOS AMOURS and SOUS LE SOLEIL DE SATAN are February 2010 (both are 2-disc sets)

March onwards is top secret and will remain so until Xmas Eve

Posted: **Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:17 am**

Well, I know what my first purchase of 2010 will be (purchases, if the Burmese Harp's delay was due to gathering material).

But come ooon, Nick! Last year, you announced Chantal Akerman's 70s output, and with the big one soon released by Criterion, don't you think you should give us a little hint as to when that one is coming?

Posted: **Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:23 am**

peerpee wrote:To try and wrap this up... I think our main mistake was to release the Naruse as a boxset with such a heavy thick book. We got overexcited and had visions of this set doing really well, and then we could move straight into doing VOLUME 2 and VOLUME 3, but after a good start, a number of months later the sales petered out, and it really wasn't looking worthwhile to do further volumes in the same way.

Naruse is on my personal wishlist. I'm very curious to know if there's going to be an Eclipse set, just so I could aim at titles other than those... I'll humbly enquire at Criterion Towers.

I'm curious : how well did the Mizoguchis-double releases ? I believe it was a really great way to release them, and it may be a way to go further on Naruse.

Posted: **Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:26 am**

See what a can of worms you've opened Nick ? You got people like me now on your tail going..... WHAT ABOUT THE EPSTEINS ?????? JUST A HINT PLEASE !!!

Posted: **Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:18 pm**

There's only one Epstein, and it's currently locked up in a very tasty package with other titles, due to an unusual rights issue that's nothing to do with us, so we've just got to sit tight and hope it will unravel soon.

We've bitten off more than we can chew this year, and a number of titles surprised us and came up fast. They unfortunately got in the way of the Akermans. We'll get onto them as soon as we can. Won't be before January that we can start working on them though.

Posted: **Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:21 pm**

tenia wrote: Fact is : maybe the people who downloaded the Naruse boxset liked it so much they found it was in fact a interesting box to buy, and went to buy it. Or, even better, they found out that MoC were real good at what they're doing, and went to buy 5 or 6 of their releases.

Yes, good point. Hopefully this was the case and it might well be for more scrupulous fans. I think Nick is right in his later post about the book being a little too much, one of the standard MoC books would probably have been enough.

Posted: **Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:27 pm**

Felix wrote:one of the standard MoC books would probably have been enough.

Or the same contents just printed in a smaller font. I'm pretty sure that the "Ugetsu" book is not much shorter than the Naruse book all in all, given how small the font is there (too small perhaps for some).

Posted: **Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:03 pm**

Hope it works out with the Epstein titles. When are the two remaining Murnaus due, Nick? The same month as Sunrise?

If I remember correctly, this is what MoC are going to release this autumn/winter:

Sunrise (SD reissue + Blu-Ray) + La Tete Contre Les Murs (September)
Mabuse set (October)
For All Mankind + Soul Power (November)

Posted: **Sun Aug 09, 2009 5:22 pm**

Nick are you able to confirm if the Epstein is going to be La Chute de la Maison Usher i'm really really drooling at the prospect of an MoC release of this film!!

Posted: **Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:08 pm**

peerpee wrote:To try and wrap this up... I think our main mistake was to release the Naruse as a boxset with such a heavy thick book. We got overexcited and had visions of this set doing really well, and then we could move straight into doing VOLUME 2 and VOLUME 3,

Volume 3?!? *swoon*

recovers...

I think it is humorous that upthread a bit a "film first" policy has been equated with a "no-Blu-Ray" stance. I consider myself firmly in the "film first" camp; purportedly "bad transfers" rarely bother me much if it's a film I really want to see, and I never buy a disc because of the "extras." It's this "film first" mindset that led me to buy a Blu-Ray disc player in the first place. I didn't want to be shut out of the market when a desperately-sought title was released in BR only, and there's certainly nothing wrong with having a higher-fidelity copy of that title if it's available in both formats, provided that the costs are comparable (Criterion's price parity announcement figured into this decision, although nearly a year later I have just two Criterion BDs.) If/when MoC goes all-Blu, I'll be very glad I am equipped so I won't miss out on something I really want. Furthermore, the backwards-compatibility of BD players means that my new BD is really just my "next" DVD player bought a little ahead of schedule. The only drawback is that it is not region-neutral for either format, but I can live without a region-free BD for a while yet, and I have two region-free DVD players (a console and a portable) to see me through until I can't.

Posted: **Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:49 pm**

Peacock wrote:Nick are you able to confirm if the Epstein is going to be La Chute de la Maison Usher i'm really really drooling at the prospect of an MoC release of this film!!

Me too, and while we're at it: any chance you could tell us what exactly will be in the Lubitsch set?

Posted: **Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:55 pm**

Nick, any chances on rereleasing Naruse Volume 1 in single-disc editions to help improve sales and make room for more Naruse DVDs?

Posted: **Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:18 pm**

peerpee wrote:Naruse is on my personal wishlist. I'm very curious to know if there's going to be an Eclipse set, just so I could aim at titles other than those... I'll humbly enquire at Criterion Towers.

Good luck. This makes a huge amount of sense for both parties - and for us, of course. I get the sense that there's actually a large amount of Naruse material available to release in good quality, so why overlap?

Re: the 'Volume One' precedent, have you considered releasing further Naruses as more manageable twofers like your Mizoguchis (i.e. Volumes 2, 3, 4, 5. . . with two films / one book apiece)? (EDIT: I see Tenia raised this possibility upthread, so - seconded!)

Posted: **Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:31 pm**

cana7cl wrote:Nick, any chances on rereleasing Naruse Volume 1 in single-disc editions to help improve sales and make room for more Naruse DVDs?

I'd actually second that because my copy of Repast wouldn't play when I bought the set around the time of its release (ordered online) and kept putting off to ask Nick if I can send in the faulty disc in exchange for a new one, and now I can't find it anymore. I generally think that single disc editions should be available anyway (same goes for Criterion, the BFI etc) just in case some people want to try out one title first.

Posted: **Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:16 am**

Our initial intentions were to put a lot out, but the problem with putting out, say, 8 x Naruse singly, is that the most famous 2 or 3 will sell okay and the other 5 or 6 will just wither. The reasoning behind releasing them as boxsets is that sales across all the titles are consistent.

We don't want to just issue the "most famous" ones, we want to get a lot of the others out too.

So the best way forward would probably be for 4 or 5 films in a NARUSE VOLUME 2 set, with no extras, no booklets, just a short essay on the reverse of the sleeve -- ie. the Eclipse model.

5 films for £49.99 list price (about £34.99 on amazon).

--

I don't want to get everyone's hopes up... but *if* we released 5 x Naruse in VOLUME 2, and 5 more in VOLUME 3 -- which 10 titles would folk like to see in such releases?

Posted: **Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:17 am**

Mr Finch wrote:and kept putting off to ask Nick if I can send in the faulty disc in exchange for a new one, and now I can't find it anymore.

If you find it, let me know!

Posted: **Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:23 am**

re: folk wanting single releases of these Naruse films:

With there being so many of them, the problem is that some sell okay and others don't at all. To which the only response is "well, don't release those 'lesser films' because no-one's heard of them!" -- but we want to get these films out there...

it's like needing to get your five young kids into the centre of town... if you send them out the door one by one at different intervals, some might go the wrong way, one might get run over.. and they'd arrive at different times (if they arrived at all...). Whereas if you drove the five kids to the centre of town in a car, everything would be fine.

That's how I look at it, anyway.

Posted: **Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:40 am**

You're doing a fine job of dodging that there Epstein question, young Sir Wrigley... if this keeps up we're going to have to release the hounds!

Posted: **Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:59 am**

peerpee wrote:So the best way forward would probably be for 4 or 5 films in a NARUSE VOLUME 2 set, with no extras, no booklets, just a short essay on the reverse of the sleeve -- ie. the Eclipse model.

5 films for £49.99 list price (about £34.99 on amazon).

I don't want to get everyone's hopes up... but *if* we released 5 x Naruse in VOLUME 2, and 5 more in VOLUME 3 -- which 10 titles would folk like to see in such releases?

Shall ponder the question of titles. In regard to aesthetics, the first image to come to mind is of two boxsets of slimline cases, bookending the lovely first set. Brief liner notes can be enlightening. Liner notes (small print) and cover/inside cover images for a five dvd set would equate roughly to a 10 to 15 page booklet anyway.

A nice thought. Hopefully the response to this will be overwhelming.

Pre-order sales : 1

Posted: **Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:09 am**

peerpee wrote:I don't want to get everyone's hopes up... but *if* we released 5 x Naruse in VOLUME 2, and 5 more in VOLUME 3 -- which 10 titles would folk like to see in such releases?

I assume the experts like Kerpan who have seen lots of Naruse will give you good feedback on this. Myself, the only Naruses I've seen are those already released by BFI and MoC (and Criterion, duplicating BFI), and I'm starving for more, which is why I want a Vol. 2 (and Vol. 3!) in the first place. You can sign me up as a blind buy on release day for both sets, should they come to pass, regardless of which films you select; I hope and trust that there are many more in my position.

Posted: **Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:13 am**

peerpee wrote:I don't want to get everyone's hopes up... but *if* we released 5 x Naruse in VOLUME 2, and 5 more in VOLUME 3 -- which 10 titles would folk like to see in such releases?

Thank you, Nick, for asking! Putting the BFI titles - FLOATING CLOUDS, LATE CHRYSANTHEMUMS and WHEN A WOMAN ASCENDS THE STAIRS - aside for the time, I'd vote for LIGHTNING as the most essential. Followed, roughly in order, by YEARNING, MOTHER, WIFE! BE LIKE A ROSE, NIGHTLY DREAMS, WIFE, SUDDEN RAIN. I know of other ardent Naruse fans who make great claims for SCATTERED CLOUDS, which I've not seen, and OLDER BROTHER, YOUNGER SISTER, which I can't remember.

Beyond that it gets a little tough because Naruse's work is of such an uncommonly high level over such an extended period, from 1930-67, roughly the same as Ozu. Which leads me to hope that some board members here will one day start bitching about MoC's Naruse favoritism the way they now do about Criterion and Ozu.

Both the Mizoguchi-style and Eclipse-style models, sound great. Whatever economic model makes the most sense/works best. Still, particularly for titles such as these, I think the customer base is most interested in quality transfers and subtitling - damn the extras. It'd be a shame not to get Tony Rayns' take on Naruse, but, then maybe he'll write a book.

Posted: **Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:23 am**

The Eclipse model sounds like a great idea. I love the MoC books, but we've already had a doozy for Naruse (no, that doesn't quite rhyme) and the films are now the priority. As for title selection, I trust your taste and only offer the following:
1) no overlap with whatever titles Criterion / Eclipse (or anybody else) is planning to release - if you can weasel this information out of them - but surely 'no overlap' is in their interest as well.
2) cover as wide a range of periods as possible, from silent era to the 60s. The existing releases are fantastic, but they're clustered around the same decade of a long career.

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