Margaret (Kenneth Lonergan, 2011)

[zedz]

Further to this discussion, when I saw the film in the cinema, it was with two other people, and all three of us had different readings of Lisa and her actions / motivations, and of the overall meaning of the film. We all liked the film and all liked the fact that we actually had a considerable amount to discuss afterwards. So I think a certain space for divergent readings is built into the material.

Also, I'd venture the opinion that any 'operatic' slant is much less pronounced in the theatrical cut (different score?).

[Dylan]

Wait, none of Nico Muhly's score made it into the extended cut? His opening theme is brilliant & I haven't forgotten it since I saw the film in theaters. I'm not at all opposed to needle-dropping of opera recordings (I thought this worked very well in Match Point), but it's difficult for me to imagine starting this film without Muhly's theme over the titles.

[Matt]

I think Muhly's score (which I really liked, when My attention was drawn to it) is still everywhere it was originally, but there are about 10 additional cues from various arias dropped in here and there in the extended cut. The credits for these appear after the original theatrical credits have run.

[Cronenfly]

A number of Muhly cues have been dropped from the extended cut, especially the big final scene in the lawyer's office, which plays without accompaniment in the extended cut, and a long-ish sequence of New York skyline and Lisa walking midway through, which has been replaced with opera. In both of these cases, at least, I felt the film played much better with the Muhly cues, but then I still haven't watched the extended cut start to finish, so that opinion may well change.

[wigwam]

there's also her and Mr. Aaron getting coffee w/ the camera across the street and they're boxed off in the window panes and there's 4 bags of garbage on the curb. The theatrical cut has a reprise or similar piece as the opening credits (the mandolin or tremelo-picked guitar over the plucked lower guitar) and the extended cut has off-screen conversations and city noises like alot of transition shots have in the extended cut

Last fall I got all of Muhly's albums and they're fantastic

[Dylan]

and a long-ish sequence of New York skyline and Lisa walking midway through, which has been replaced with opera.

Is that the music playing when she's walking to confront the Mark Ruffalo character (preceded by skyline/city shots)? If so, that was my second-favorite cue after the Main Title. Again, though, I'm completely open-minded about the extended changes and eagerly await to assess that cut.

the mandolin or tremelo-picked guitar over the plucked lower guitar

A much better description of the music than I was able to write. I can't really pigeon-hole the part of the world the music evokes, though. The arrangement is certainly Spanish/Italian, and the theme itself is a touch wistful and otherworldly (to my ears). As I wrote a few posts above, the music is a very unique and intelligent stroke that I really commend.

Last fall I got all of Muhly's albums and they're fantastic

I've only heard his score for Margaret, which is unreleased (no cues are even available to stream on his website). I'll listen to his other works eventually. If a label won't be picking up this score for a release (if it hasn't happened yet I can't imagine we're to see anything more than a promo anytime soon), it would be great if Muhly wrote and recorded a concert piece based on the music from this movie.

[oh yeah]

the mandolin or tremelo-picked guitar over the plucked lower guitar

A much better description of the music than I was able to write. I can't really pigeon-hole the part of the world the music evokes, though. The arrangement is certainly Spanish/Italian, and the theme itself is a touch wistful and otherworldly (to my ears). As I wrote a few posts above, the music is a very unique and intelligent stroke that I really commend.

The piece is Francisco Tárrega's "Recuerdos de la Alhambra," sort of a "Stairway to Heaven" amongst classical guitarists. The whole thing is actually just one guitar, with one hand picking both the tremolo and the single notes; it's one of my favorite pieces to play and I was delighted by its inclusion in the film.

[Lemmy Caution]

Sounds nice. I'll have to look for that.
I have Andres Segovia's recording of Recuerdos de la Alhambra from the mid-1920's and it's a pretty amazing piece.

[R0lf]

The Astor in Melbourne is doing a theatrical screening of the extended cut in November.

I take this to mean that the quality of the materials would have been up to scratch for more than an SD release.

[mfunk9786]

What makes you jump to that conclusion?

[The Narrator Returns]

He just got one.

[R0lf]

edit. Specifically they only project in 70mm/35mm or 4K/2K.

[Perkins Cobb]

Should I be worried that the 2-disc set just disappeared from my Amazon cart and is only available used -- for $999? Temporary glitch, I hope....

[swo17]

I wouldn't be too worried. I don't know what's going on at Amazon (perhaps their exclusive pressing sold out) but other e-retailers like DVD Empire and Deep Discount are now listing it as an Oct 9 pre-order.

[Black Hat]

Have yet to see the director's cut of this but, as someone who grew up mostly on the upper east side and is all too familiar with that private school world, how the parents operate, who they are etc. Lonergan despite at times being too flowery came pretty close to capturing it. Outside of that narrow view, the film certainly had it's moments and I love Lonergan as a writer but, I felt it was too long, certain things were made abundantly too clear. Now is that because of the editing of the film or how I came to utterly grow sick and tired of Lisa, I don't know and won't know until I see Lonergan's cut. I will add for what it's worth that conversely the woman I saw the film with, who grew up in the Pacific Northwest, was profoundly moved by the Lisa character and began telling me stories of her own teenage years.

Does anybody happen to know which of the versions is available on Amazon Instant?

[mfunk9786]

The director's cut is only available on the Blu/DVD combo pack sold by Amazon.

[swo17]

Well, as we learned today, formerly sold by Amazon, but soon to be sold elsewhere.

[Black Hat]

Well that's fantastic, good job Amazon! thanks

[mfunk9786]

Should I be worried that the 2-disc set just disappeared from my Amazon cart and is only available used -- for $999? Temporary glitch, I hope....

I sort of want to sell mine for $999.

[HistoryProf]

has anyone rented this from Redbox? they only have the DVD but claim its 150 minutes - not the extended cut. I was under the impression that the theatrical cut was only on the blu-ray. did they make rental copies with only the theatrical cut? Because that would be stupid.

[swo17]

Yes, there is a DVD of the theatrical cut which was manufactured specifically for rental facilities. (My local library was also able to get a copy of it.) The only way to see the director's cut is to purchase the BD/DVD combo, which is presently close to impossible to do.

[wattsup32]

I'm unclear from the posts above, when this becomes available from other retailers will it be the BD/DVD combo or just the theatrical cut?

[swo17]

These listings seem to indicate that it will be the same BD/DVD combo that was being offered by Amazon.

[wattsup32]

These listings seem to indicate that it will be the same BD/DVD combo that was being offered by Amazon.

Excellent! Thank you.

[ianthemovie]

My university library just acquired the Blu-ray/DVD package with both cuts, so I was able to check them out earlier this week. I watched them back-to-back, the director's cut first followed by the theatrical cut, and I have to say that I vastly preferred the shorter cut. It might have been that the longer cut remains "unfinished" in some small ways (transitions are sometimes awkward, etc.), but the shorter cut seemed to me much smoother and more polished, and it moved more elegantly for me. I even felt that the shorter version could have been trimmed and tightened further. (The short scene in which

Spoiler

Lisa's mother demonstrates her talent for impersonation with her actor friends over dinner

still seems to me somewhat dispensable, for instance.) All of the added material is interesting, but most of it doesn't seem crucial. The one (rather formidable) exception seems to be

Spoiler

the abortion-related scenes near the end; it seems to make a huge difference whether we know that Lisa is making up the abortion to Mr. Aaron or not, and it seems to have genuinely confused some viewers. I was reading some of the comments over on Glenn Kenny's blog, for instance, and several people who saw only the theatrical cut seemed convinced that Lisa was making up the abortion, since that cut of the film gives no evidence to the contrary. That seems to me to open up a very problematic gap and really changes how we take Lisa as a character.

That said, both cuts are riveting and we're lucky to have access to both of them. Paquin's performance is remarkable. It's striking to think that she's turned in two more or less perfect performances (here and in The Piano) before the age of thirty. With any luck we'll get to see another fifty-plus years' worth of her acting talents.