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I agree with knives (?!), the second and third films are about as good and necessary. There is nothing wrong with Andy Garcia either, don't know where that vitriol came from, and Sofia Coppola's perf is nowhere near a disaster no matter how often that gets repeated

I’ll agree with knives and domino about the relative merits of 2 and 3. The dirty little secret of this trilogy is that 2 has a bunch of quotable lines but otherwise doesn’t add anything - it just spends 3 hours telling us over and over again what we already knew about Michael (and Vito) by the end of the 1st film.

Yeah, the film comes across for me as a louder version of the first which works for Fredo, in my opinion, but otherwise does go beyond that although the status switch between Vito and Michael is interesting.

The third is kind of the opposite as a messy attempt of doing something largely new.

I've always been puzzled by the accolades for Part II being on par with, or exceeding the qualities of the first film, since no matter how many times I watch it, the present-day scenes are completely forgettable outside of the beginning assassination attempt, and the ending of course. The De Niro section used to be my favorite of the whole series, and still are to a large extent some of the most interesting narrative execution that develops Vito into a murky territory of paralleled motivators in survivalist-need and power-inflation. The unevenness of the film is irritating by pairing that exciting depth with passable soulless drama, and so I can't call it a cohesively great film despite its moments of greatness, for the same reason I can't call We're an American Band my favorite Yo La Tengo song, even if the eruptive back half is the greatest thing they've ever done, because of the song portion which is comfortably fine.

knives wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:22 pm The third is kind of the opposite as a messy attempt of doing something largely new.

Sounds right up my alley then

domino harvey wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:41 pm I agree with knives (?!), the second and third films are about as good and necessary. There is nothing wrong with Andy Garcia either, don't know where that vitriol came from, and Sofia Coppola's perf is nowhere near a disaster no matter how often that gets repeated

I didn't know there was vitriol against Andy Garcia.

There are only two quick scenes that make me cringe with Sofia that I felt could have been fixed with another take. The scene near the beginning on the rooftop with Pacino asking if the deal will be legit. And, the scene in Italy where Pacino and her brother tell her she can no longer see Garcia, and she lets out a weird declarative "no" which seems forced but not forceful. Otherwise, I find her serviceable.

Me either til I read this:

CSM126 wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:08 am Andy Garcia is so ungodly terrible in this movie but everyone picks on Sofia Coppola… who’s perfectly fine and not a bad actor. I never got the misplaced hatred here.

I generally don't think I've ever seen Andy Garcia give a bad performance. Not many great ones either, he just brings himself to whatever role and does a serviceable to good job regardless of the merits of the film itself.

He’s fun in Hero although that’s a pretty bad movie.

Needed to look up the title as it was a generic 90s title, but I thought Garcia was pretty mediocre in Desperate Measures with Michael Keaton. But that's about the worst performance I can recall from him.

I was looking over the credits just to jog my memory of Part III, which surprisingly was an effective way of recalling performances I had completely forgotten. For example, I forgot Bridget Fonda was in this and immediately remembered her final scene with Andy Garcia. I'd have to see it again to be sure, but I don't recall Garcia being terrible at all, probably the opposite. Also forgot about George Hamilton - Duvall was obviously missed, but I had never seen Hamilton act before (for years, I just knew him as the tan guy who showed up on talk shows and commercials), and I remember being surprised after seeing this film that he could act and do a fine job of it. I believe it was even scripted into the film that he was overshadowed by his predecessor, and he humbly accepted that would always be the case, which seemed like a nice touch.

After watching the first two, it seemed pretty clunky and creaky, with some of the finer elements looking a bit rusty, but I remember it seemed like a worthwhile personal project. Not a great film, and I understand why so many would deem it unnecessary, but at that stage of Francis Coppola's career, it wasn't just revisiting past glories but just revisiting the past, and while Sofia Coppola's performance was very amateurish, at least conceptually it made sense to have her there.

Re: the second one, I wasn't taken with it when I first saw it (albeit at a very young age - maybe middle school?) and I didn't disagree with criticisms that it was unwieldy and uneven. What changed my mind was watching it right after the first one, and doing so many years later helped a lot. It still depends on whether you can agree with its deeply cynical take on capitalism (politics, crime, business and family, and how they become deprived of real morality as they're made interchangeable) which doesn't resonate at all without the first film. The sense of loss and the process of corruption is far more palpable in the immediate wake of watching the first film.

I like Garcia singing ”What I’d Say” with Ken Takakura in Black Rain.

Worth also noting Garcia was the only actor nominated for an Oscar for the film

tenia wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:23 am Dementia 13's 4k restoration credits also mentioned it as a Director's Cut.

Right. That's partially to get a copyright on it.

The Rain People has received a restoration as well, but I don't believe it's a new cut. I do hope a Blu of that
includes George Lucas' documentary Filmmaker, too.

I seem to recall that there was pressure from Paramount for Coppola to finish cutting Godfather II in time for a Christmas release. Can anyone weigh in?

The new title is very unwieldy (though not as bad as Train to Busan presents: Peninsula). Should have just left it at The Death of Michael Corleone. I think this series peaked with the first film. Fredo's arc apart, Part 2 doesn't add much else. I found Part 3 mostly boring and find that since it only ever really came into being so American Zoetrope wouldn't go bankrupt (at least that's my understanding of it), no amount of tinkering can turn this into an essential film. But I'm curious to see the revisions anyway.

The Godfather, Coda: The Death of Michael Corleone coming out on Blu, standalone, December 8th.

Wow spoiler alert much?!

I'm surprised that they're not releasing a 4K trilogy set. They're surely not holding off until the 50th anniversary in 2022?

Calvin wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:18 pm I'm surprised that they're not releasing a 4K trilogy set. They're surely not holding off until the 50th anniversary in 2022?

They may or may not wait till then, but I'm pretty sure it'll happen no later than then...why sell GF3 once when they could sell it twice?

My first thought is that that must be exactly what they're doing. It'll be a good tie-in for the CBS All Access series about the making of the first movie.

The third one looks great, and I don’t think there’s a bad performance in it, but story wise it’s unnecessary as it’s clear Michael will die alone with all kinds of regrets at the end of 2.

One wishes Joe Mantegna stuck around longer... The crooked Cardinal is a interesting character. Talia Shire has a great witch like presence. The big mob meeting/shootout is the dumbest thing all of the movies. A mob boss giving out checks...lol

aox wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:16 pm There are only two quick scenes that make me cringe with Sofia that I felt could have been fixed with another take. The scene near the beginning on the rooftop with Pacino asking if the deal will be legit. And, the scene in Italy where Pacino and her brother tell her she can no longer see Garcia, and she lets out a weird declarative "no" which seems forced but not forceful. Otherwise, I find her serviceable.

Totally agree, besides Francis wanted Winona Ryder but she dropped out shortly before filming. With Paramount execs giving a scrict time limit on the filming he had to go with plan B and she isn't exactly a main character we see often enough to stress about it. It's just people who find Part 1 and 2 sacred that they hate the third part.

Paramount just gave TheDigitalBits this statement

“At this time, we will be releasing Mario Puzo’s The Godfather, Coda: The Death of Michael Corleone on Blu-ray and Digital. In anticipation of the 50th anniversary of The Godfather in 2022, Paramount is working on restoring all films in this franchise, preparing for new home entertainment releases including 4K UHD physical and digital releases. More details will be released at a later date.”

The '08 release was already based on Robert Harris's 4K restoration. I'm sure Paramount is eager to better it with their "To Catch a Thief" treatment.

Trailer.

I've seen the film only once years ago and did not like it. It felt really unnecessary and I did not find the characters appealing, the story compelling, or the film-making interesting.

A new cut would be a good reason to revisit the movie.