Eclipse Discussion and Random Speculation

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mbalson · #126 Post by **mbalson** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:57 am

dx23 wrote:
No supplements, little restoration
I'm can deal with the lack of supplements, but little restoration?!? I don't like the sound of this, since most of this films, a least the ones from the mentioned directors, are old and most likely in need of some cleanup. If there is no restoration on this 30-50 year old films, then what would make Eclipse different to a public domain pusher like Madacy or Laserlight?

Well, for starters I would assume that they will still transfer the films with as much care as the Criterion line, just without the addition digital cleanup. I can certainly live with this and who else would release these films with extensive restoration anyway?

#127 Post by **zedz** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:01 am

dx23 wrote:
No supplements, little restoration
I'm can deal with the lack of supplements, but little restoration?!? I don't like the sound of this, since most of this films, a least the ones from the mentioned directors, are old and most likely in need of some cleanup. If there is no restoration on this 30-50 year old films, then what would make Eclipse different to a public domain pusher like Madacy or Laserlight?

I wouldn't panic on that count. I would expect Eclipse to take the same care with making transfers (and sourcing them) as their parent company, but probably less effort on frame-by-frame digital clean-up. A lot of the films that we've been waiting on for so long (e.g. early Ozu) have got inherent problems with their elements, so even the best possible transfer is going to look rough compared to, say, the recent Seven Samurai reissue. But that's still a long way from the PD efforts you're worried about, which are often nth-generation video-level dreck.

In many cases, a fine transfer of a battered print is vastly preferable to a bad transfer of an OK print.

EDIT: beaten to the punch!

jguitar · #128 Post by **jguitar** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:53 am

One of the most intriguing aspects of this for me (other than the mere fact of it, and the directorial names being dropped) is when Becker says:

and we are examining the logistics of making the sets available at an even more favorable rate on a subscriber or club basis.

I would be down with that. I've often wished that MoC had a kind of subscription option where you could sign up to get every release, or every release that you indicate you're interested in receiving. I subscribe to the Library of America series, and about every month I receive a book from a list where I've ticked every book I'd like to receive, at a bit of a discount. It helps with my poor impulse control when it comes to buying stuff.

I've read Dwight Macdonald on the Midcult properties of the Book of the Month Club, so I realize that this is all a bit middlebrow of me, but I just like knowing I'm going to get a book every month that I look forward to reading, and I'd enjoy DVDs just as much. Although I'd still hurt my credit card during big sales.

blindside8zao · #129 Post by **blindside8zao** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:30 am

As exciting as this all sounds, it also makes me terribly afraid that they will release Tarkovsky films on Eclipse instead of fully-worked editions on Criterion. I hope no one gets their feelings hurt when one of their favorites gets the lower-class treatment. Yet, I suppose bare-bones is better than no-bones.

Cinesimilitude · #130 Post by **Cinesimilitude** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:38 am

ohmygodiamsohappyicanteventhinkstraight.

I really really hope the club/subscription thing happens. really really.

htdm · #131 Post by **htdm** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:38 am

They also might make it something like Film Movement where the subscribers receive the sets first (and cheaper) than the regular release. I would definitely be on for that!

miless · #132 Post by **miless** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:42 am

blindside8zao wrote:As exciting as this all sounds, it also makes me terribly afraid that they will release Tarkovsky films on Eclipse instead of fully-worked editions on Criterion. I hope no one gets their feelings hurt when one of their favorites gets the lower-class treatment. Yet, I suppose bare-bones is better than no-bones.

I don't think you have to worry about any Tarkovsky (or Bresson) turning up on Eclipse... as any Tarkovsky film is something worth Criterion's while... as opposed to works from directors with 30+ titles (Ozu, Mizoguchi, Bergman, etc...)... the closest you may get to seeing a director with few works being represented on Eclipse may be Carl Th. Dreyer (with his early, pre-Joan of Arc films)

fred · #133 Post by **fred** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:19 am

The really good news here is that sweet price point. These things should work out to about $10/disc from the discounters. As someone who owns fewer than 20 Criterion discs (ducks) I will be buying *every* Mizoguchi/Naruse/Ozu/Imamura/Gremillon film they release at this price point. I can do without the commentaries and extras and even the fancy digital restoration, thank you very much (ducks). I'm sure these will look fantastic--or nearly as good as they reasonably can--anyway. Heck, they could package these in brown paper bags for all I care (ducks and runs for cover).

Steven H · #134 Post by **Steven H** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:49 am

fred wrote:I can do without the commentaries and extras and even the fancy digital restoration, thank you very much (ducks). I'm sure these will look fantastic--or nearly as good as they reasonably can--anyway.

Let's just hope they still include subtitles; am I right folks?

I am completely stuck on this one sentence:

Becker wrote:Each month we'll present a short series, usually three to five films, focusing on a particular director or theme.

Christ!

Cinesimilitude · #135 Post by **Cinesimilitude** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:37 am

Steven H wrote:Let's just hope they still include subtitles; am I right folks?

I emailed turell a few hours ago regarding subtitles, and whether there would be subs on english releases, and whether or not any of them would be non-removeable. I'll let you know the response if I get one.

ellipsis7 · #136 Post by **ellipsis7** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:19 am

This is superb news... Allows them to put out those Ozu's where the materials are not up to usual CC standard...

Gordon · #137 Post by **Gordon** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:51 pm

The high-def transfers will probably be ran through the MTI automatic software, but not the manual software or as extensively and carefully color-corrected as CC titles. They'll still looks great though - think Hamlet or Written on the Wind, which are not said to have had clean-up in the "About the Transfer" in their booklets. If the 35mm film element is good and the transfer is HD, then you're more or less home and dry and if the best available element is in bad shape then I'm sure that they would use extensive clean-up for an archival HD master. It's the sound that worries me more - we have gotten used to amazingly clean and clear sound on 40+ year-old films and rectifying audio problems to a high degree of quality is more difficult than cleaning frames of film.

Narshty · #138 Post by **Narshty** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:52 pm

Those early Samuel Fullers would be a shoo-in for an Eclipse batch, as would all those wacky samurai films for which they recently struck new prints. Hopefully, they can plug up the holes in Jean Renoir's oeuvre too, as well as more Jacques Becker, Kon Ichikawa and Kenji Mizoguchi.

rwaits · #139 Post by **rwaits** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:18 pm

Yeah, the more obscure Renoir was one of the first things that popped into my mind as well.

Derek Estes · #140 Post by **Derek Estes** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:26 pm

I know what you mean. Renoir's Partie de campagne came instantly to mind.

ellipsis7 · #141 Post by **ellipsis7** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:37 pm

But that calls out for extras/supplements as are on the R2 BFI and French PARTIE DE CAMPAGNE discs, and would thus make it an ideal CC disc... There's other Renoirs maybe more suited to the Eclipse treatment...

...

skuhn8 · #142 Post by **skuhn8** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:11 pm

Renoir silents box, I suspect. I think we're going to see a lot of silents being pushed through this line. That would be exciting.

filmnoir1 · #143 Post by **filmnoir1** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:06 pm

This is exciting news for classic film enthusiasts because many of the classic films, especially those silent ones that are being released at the pace of a snail are often poor in quality. I do not believe it possible that people who love the film medium as dearly as those who work for Criterion/Janus could release a film that was sub-par. I hope this idea leads to a greater availability and appreciation of classic film, and film history.

#144 Post by **Matt** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:34 pm

People should not be expecting titles like Shanghai Express or the rumored Lubitsch titles. I doubt Criterion would go through the trouble and expense of licensing a title from Universal (or Fox or New Line) only to release it at a $15 price point with no extras. I'm sure Eclipse will be more for those titles in the Janus catalog they have previously been unable to release or those titles they purchased in bulk (e.g. the 20-odd Ozu titles they purchased a few years ago) that don't cry out for the full Criterion treatment.

Gregory · #145 Post by **Gregory** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:18 pm

Before I knew these would be sets I was thinking Shanghai Express might be a perfect candidate for an Eclipse release because I thought they already licensed it years ago and then ran into a hitch. Perhaps the old license has expired and they would have to re-license it, but it seemed that if there were problems with the elements, an Eclipse release would have been one way to do a better-than-nothing release of a film they have wanted to release for some time.

Cinephrenic · #146 Post by **Cinephrenic** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:27 pm

Regarding Imamura, Donald Richie recorded commentaries for Pigs and Battleships and Intentions of Murder, so these are not likely to appear on the barebones Eclipse line. Makes me think Vengeance is Mine, The Insect Woman, Deep Desire of Gods, Ballad of Narayama, Black Rain may appear in a set from Eclipse.

Musashi219 · #147 Post by **Musashi219** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:22 pm

Cinephrenic wrote:Regarding Imamura, Donald Richie recorded commentaries for Pigs and Battleships and Intentions of Murder, so these are not likely to appear on the barebones Eclipse line. Makes me think Vengeance is Mine, The Insect Woman, Deep Desire of Gods, Ballad of Narayama, Black Rain may appear in a set from Eclipse.

All of those seem likely although given the importance of Black Rain, I imagine that's the kind of release that'll end up a $40 CC disc with loads of supplements.

blindside8zao · #148 Post by **blindside8zao** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:35 pm

was there supposed to be some happening or news today about eclipse?

hammock · #149 Post by **hammock** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:42 am

blindside8zao wrote:was there supposed to be some happening or news today about eclipse?

"The news will be official on Friday when we ship out PDFs of the first sell sheets for Series 1: Early Bergman" That's about it I'm afraid!

Floyd · #150 Post by **Floyd** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:16 am

I think this news is tremendous and I don't know how people can speculate they will present LaserLight like treatments for the films. This is Criterion here, say what you want about there various issues but they won't give us PD treatments I am sure just based on what they feel about film and how they present it. Not to mention how much they'd be bitched out about that. I just hope this lends itself to bringing out the Sam Fuller box sooner rather than later (if it's in this Eclipse line which I assume it would be).

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