Blu-ray, in General

[Antoine Doinel]

Digital Bits has in interesting little editorial on Apple's announcement yesterday regarding movie downloads and how it will affect HD-DVD and Blu-Ray:

Okay... obviously, the BIG news from yesterday is Apple's announcement that they're going to be launching a broadband movie download service via their iTunes software (starting with Disney/BVHE titles). More importantly, the company is working on a new set-top device (the $200 iTV, available by 2nd Qtr 2007), that will allow you to download movies and other video programming right to your TV. This is a big deal, folks. You can bet that Apple isn't the only company that's going to be doing this, and it signals potential trouble for Blu-ray Disc and HD-DVD. There are few details so far on the iTV, but eventually it's reasonable to expect that high-definition programming will be available for downloading on this and other services. It'll have a hard time competing with either high-def disc format in terms of sheer quality, but it might be seen by the wider consumer audience - who isn't as concerned with the very highest quality, but rather wants convenience and portability - as the more attractive choice for getting HD programming. We've been expecting just such a development for a while now, and what it could mean is that the window for Blu-ray Disc and HD-DVD to catch on and gain traction in the market with consumers is going to be short indeed. Which is why it's all the more important for both camps to start showing their stuff, particularly by offering more desirable titles now (rather than holding them for later to allow for more advanced features). Universal and Fox deserve credit for their recent announcements of Peter Jackson's King Kong and Ridley Scott's Kingdom of Heaven (on HD-DVD and Blu-ray Disc, respectively). Those are EXACTLY the kinds of titles that are going to sell hardware, so we hope lots more such announcements are in the offing and soon.

I think the one key factor he's missing - and correct me if I'm wrong - is that the downloads will be lacking in extra features. That's one of the major reasons I buy DVDs in the first place. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. It will either lead to studios investing more in the extra features they offer to get people to keep buying DVDs or to scale back completely and just offer special editions/features only on key titles, but bare bones offerings the rest of the time.

[jedgeco]

I'm a little skeptical of Apple's intention of getting into the HDTV game. Their current movie downloads are not even DVD resolution (only 640x480 IIRC). That and the 128K music downloads from the iTunes store gives no indication that Apple has any plans to get into the quality game as opposed to the quantity. Not to mention the fact that high definition movie downloads would take up enormous chunks of hard drive space. Also, since the quality limitations of the current downloads are going to be readily apparent to anyone with the tech savy to bother streaming video from his computer to his TV, I think it'll be tough for the iTunes Movie Store to gain traction.

This is not to say that the studios shouldn't heed Bill's advice in getting a unified HD disc format together. I just think that given current technology limitations, the iTV is going to end up being closer to the Newton than the iPod.

[numediaman2]

Concerning Apple's iTV: most people are looking at this as a movie streaming device -- I don't.

iTunes contains thousands of podcasts, many are video podcasts. Apple upgraded their iTunes and iPod video to 640x480 (or something like that). This is actually a major upgrade from the old standard.

My point: lots of people are getting into video -- lots of companies are just now adding video to their web sites. Say you download a little video showing you how to install more RAM on your computer -- today you have to watch it on your iPod or through iTunes, or on your player using the existing player.

But iTV allows anyone to be a TV broadcaster -- not just by utilizing the Internet, but by then being able to easily display it on your TV.

Just think of this as a logical extension of the iPod, iMovie and YouTube. You'll never want to watch your new copy of Seven Samurai via iTV, but as a better way to view "user generated" content, it certainly beats watching it on your PC.

[cdnchris]

While I've been someone who usually stays on top of new video formats (was an early adopter of laserdisc and DVD) I pretty much sat on the side during this whole HD thing. But I may have started being pulled towards it. I got my wife a DVR from (fucking) Comcast so she can record her (heinous) shows and they ended up giving us a hi-def one (good thing the TV is hi-def) Tested out the HD channels and I was blown away how great they look. Nope, never saw HDTV before. While I was one that said it would be wise to wait, I may start jumping on this bandwagon soon and get an HDDVD player sometime in the future (as something tells me now that may be the safe bet).

I'm still convinced it'll only be a niche thing, but I still own a laserdisc player, so, why not. Plus my DVD player is going wonky anyways.

[Cinesimilitude]

Toshiba's 2nd Gen HD players previewed here!

http://blog.ultimateavmag.com/cedia2006/091406hddvd/

I am buying one as soon as amazon puts em online.

[Antoine Doinel]

I haven't been following the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray too closely, but increased picture quality aside, the big thing for me will be what studios will be doing with all that space in terms of extras. Of the announced titles so far, the extra features have been somewhat lacklustre or merely mirroring the regular DVD release. The one thing everyone seems to be doing is "picture-in-picture commentary" which seems sort of redundant to me (why do I need to watch someone sitting in a chair telling me about the movie?).

Has anyone come across any truly unique extras in the announced batch of titles so far?

[Cinesimilitude]

Well, Paramounts 2 disc set for Mission Impossible 3 will contain HD special features, and warner said there may be exclusive HD features on the HD Kubrick movies. I'm guessing 2nd or 3rd quarter of 07 is when we'll start seeing the format getting a bunch of exclusives. until then, They'll be sparse, but I'll be happy with just the film in HD.

[porquenegar]

Adventures of Robin Hood is supposed to include the Loony Tunes that were on the DVD release but they will be in HD. Can't wait.

[Cinesimilitude]

got this email today, from the hd-dvd petition site...

I am just sending this quick update to let you know a few tid-bits.

First of all, we are less than a week away from launching our new HD DVD Petition website, which will be a big day for us. This will allow us to start presenting ourselves and the campaign to a wider section of the web than just the AVS Forums where we have been based to date.

For those of you who have been looking forward to emailing the studios directly to let them know how you feel (and I hope that's ALL of you!) I'll be sending you a list of contacts you can email - to coincide with the launch of the website. We will also be broadening the appeal of the petition campaign, to support hardware manufacturers and certain Retail chains.

In the news, I was informed yesterday that the Videoscape report on home movie sales has just come out for the last month, and shows that HD DVD is outselling Bluray by a factor of 11 to 1. Wow. That's more than 10 times the sales! The month before, HD DVD was outselling Bluray by 8 to 1, so the gap is growing bigger. HD DVD is where the buyers are, the sales are - and the money. Studios are seeing this, and it's on their minds as they see our letters.

HD DVD continues to grow by leaps and bounds, based on the consistently exceptional quality of the video and audio being delivered now, in the real world, by the format.

In a separate note - there is a poll on AVS Forum that you might be interested in filling out. It asks HD DVD owners if you are interested in any of the Bluray titles (or not) and whether you would purchase a Universal player or Bluray player at some point in the future, or whether you would spurn the Bluray titles (on quality grounds) since you would prefer they are released on HD DVD. The poll is at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=728532

There are over 1,100 of us petition signatories now, and all who have signed by the time the website launches will become "Founding Signatories". It's a cute phrase, but it doesn't include a pay-rise What it DOES mean is that we have launched the HD DVD NOW petition site together in Solidarity. Remember - we are not asking anyone to kill any format (despite personal feelings!) but just informing them that they are missing the bigger market (read below about the Videoscape report!) if they don't support HD DVD.

I can't think of a single format that I can remember that ever got their launch so right. Almost every movie I watch in the format is a revelation - whether old or new. I have just ordered my copy of Grand Prix, perhaps the greatest car racing movie ever made. At 40 years old, it's almost as old as me (missed by one year!) yet the reviews have said that it is one of the best looking transfers yet seen on the HD DVD format. I can hardly wait.

Today I'm looking forward to six new titles which my email this morning tells me have shipped last night: Dazed and Confused; All 3 Fast and Furious films; Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas; and End of Days. Also, you probably know that Warner is releasing Batman Begins to HD DVD on October 10th. This is expected to be a big hit, so get your orders in for this one!

If we stay busy for the next month or two, perhaps we may even see an announcement by a studio or two at CES in January. Now wouldn't that be a nice belated Christmas present!

My friends, keep the faith. I've gotten some good news on one studio already (can't say yet) and I know there'll be more to come.

I'll let you know when we're launching the site and starting the email campaign.

My very best regards,

Edward

p.s. Apologies to any of you who may have received an earlier version of this letter accidentally!

Odds and sods - Links:

BBC - "Right now Sony is losing.." - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovRbVs_rgSc
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovRbVs_r ... %2Ejoystiq%
2Ecom%2F> &eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ejoystiq%2Ecom%2F

HD BEAT - "Why HD DVD will survive" - http://w.hdbeat.com/2006/07/11/why-hd-d ... three-mont
hs-later/

Projector Central - "Bluray: Can it survive?" - http://www.projectorcentral.com/blu-ray_2.htm

GameSpot - "Analyst: PS3 bad news for publishers, industry." -
http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6151425.html?sid=6151425

HiDef Digest - "Blu-Ray vs HD DVD: First Head-to-Head comparisons" -
http://www.highdefdigest.com/feature_bl ... rison.html

International Herald Tribune - "EU's DVD inquiry goes to Hollywood" -
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/08/08/ ... s/sony.php

Reuters - Kutaragi - "Sony hits stumbling blocks on road to recovery" -
http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/article ... eutersEdge
<http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/article ... &storyID=2
006-09-08T105025Z_01_ZWE839007_RTRUKOC_0_TECH-SONY.xml&pageNumber=0&imageid=
&cap=&sz=13&WTModLoc=NewsArt-C1-ArticlePage3>
&storyID=2006-09-08T105025Z_01_ZWE839007_RTRUKOC_0_TECH-SONY.xml&pageNumber=
0&imageid=&cap=&sz=13&WTModLoc=NewsArt-C1-ArticlePage3

The Digital Bits / AVS Forum - "Samsung and prototype players won't play 50
Gig BD discs" - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=715420

DVD Talk - Review of Robocop on Bluray - "HD couldn't possibly get any
worse, but here Sony just keeps lowering the bar for the format" -
http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=23110

AVS Forum - "Selected SCARY headlines re: Bluray after IFA" -
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8382976
<http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthre ... ost8382976>
&&#post8382976

Tom's Hardware - "Will Bluray SINK the PlayStation 3?" -
http://tomshardware.co.uk/2006/08/15/wi ... k_the_ps3/

Home Theater Forum - "HD DVD: The Format I Couldn't Resist!" -
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/hddvd/index.html

Home Theater Mag gives the Toshiba a 98! -
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthre ... did=696943

POLL: HD Optical Discs Player and Movie Purchase plans:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=677878
<http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthre ... ge=1&pp=30>
&page=1&pp=30

POLL: 70% think HD DVD will beat Bluray: http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=359049

HDTV UK: "MGM announce BD Movies with NO extras; New HD DVD players; Samsung won't play dual-layer BD discs?" -
http://www.hdtvuk.tv/blurayhd_dvd/index.html

[The Invunche]

My friends, keep the faith.

What a fucking moron.

That guy doesn't want the best format to win. He wants the format he's invested financially and emotionally in to win.

[Cinesimilitude]

the stats, Invunche. the stats.

[The Invunche]

That's not what I'm talking about. This guy has simply chosen sides. He sounds just like a Blu-Ray supporter and I bet he could easily have been one. Now he wants everybody else to follow his example because it suits HIM.

[Cinesimilitude]

Find me as many links as he has at the bottom of his post that are from sites that dont have an obvious Blu-ray bias, and I'll agree with you.

[The Invunche]

Yeah, I'm gonna waste my time doing that.

[Cinesimilitude]

[quote]As reported by Hi Def Digest, Lions Gate has pulled their announced “third waveâ€

[The Invunche]

Now, not all of you may realize this, but the only way to get a VC1 encode for Bluray is to do a VC1 encode for HD DVD first. THEN, you run a tool provided by Microsoft which converts the HD DVD stream into a Bluray stream.

I'm certainly no expert in codecs and encoding, but that doesn't sound right.

[Cinesimilitude]

the only thing that doesnt sound right to me is that microsoft would even have a program that converts VC1 to blu-ray. VC1 is a windows media based encoding(I believe), and since microsoft is supporting HD-DVD, I doubt they would create a program to convert it to a blu-ray stream.

it could be that he wrote it wrong, and that sony converts the VC-1 stream to blu-ray. But then again, I dont know much about encoding at that level either.

[The Invunche]

Yes, VC1 is a Microsoft codec, but the idea that you need a HD DVD version of a VC1 encoded movie to make a Blu-ray version is just preposterous. It's like saying Blu-ray is technologically dependent on HD DVD.

I don't buy it.

[porquenegar]

I recently watched Adventures of Robin Hood and I was very pleased with the presentation. The images were sharp and the level of detail was very good. For the first time, the fabrics and designs of Marian's outfits jumped out at me. The colors were nice and rich and looked very natural and not overbearing. The soundtrack was clear and understandable. I watched the two included Loony Toons this morning before coming to work and they also have never looked better. There is an obvious jump in quality on them. I didn't realize that they would look that much better.

I also recently screened Grand Prix which was also very enjoyable. The image quality of this is one of the bests of any of the HD DVDs I own, matching newer moves like Training Day and blowing away some of the others that are 30 years newer. The print and presentation is pristine. I had never seen the movie before but really enjoyed the race sequences even though the rest of the movie was a little to melodramtic for my taste. The original soundtrack is not included in the release and the 5.1 mix sounds a bit awkward to my ears. I wish they had stuck with the mono track as the remix is mostly front loaded anyway with very little surround activity. The mix is very loud but doesn't rumble a lot so my subwoofer stayed mostly uninterested in it. Overall, I'm very happy with it.

I've also picked up Fear and Loathing and Dirty Dozen but haven't had a chance to watch them yet.

[Cinesimilitude]

I bought a player today just to test it out, and I was blown away on my own setup. I've watched scenes from Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, The Searchers, Fear and Loathing, Sky Captain, and Serenity, and they are all mouth watering. I'll be returning this player and getting the 360 add on, since the announced price for it is 199 US and it comes with King Kong.

[Gigi M.]

I bought a player today just to test it out, and I was blown away on my own setup. I've watched scenes from Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, The Searchers, Fear and Loathing, Sky Captain, and Serenity, and they are all mouth watering. I'll be returning this player and getting the 360 add on, since the announced price for it is 199 US and it comes with King Kong.

This is specially for you:

Finally, those of you who missed Chris Gore and I debating the future of DVD on Attack of the Show yesterday can watch the video clip of The Loop segment by clicking on the image below. Chris and I always have fun talking about this stuff, and host Kevin Pereira is great at keeping the discussion moving, so it turned out well I think. Bottom line... those of you who haven't jumped on the high-def bandwagon yet should feel no guilt about sticking with standard DVD for now, until this format war is over or until downloading really takes off. Good old DVD is going to be the main event in the home video realm for at least another good 10 years or so. 'Nuff said. Enjoy the clip.

Clip

[Matt]

Here comes region coding for HD DVD.

[The Invunche]

This is why some of us are a bit anxious about getting these players early, before the manufacturers start shipping players with forced region codes.

I doubt that'll help. What I think will happen is that you'll be unable to play any region protected discs until you have updated the player firmware to one that includes region protection.

[porquenegar]

Warner announced Excalibur and V for Vendetta today with a release date of October 31.

Edit: It looks like Soderberg's Bubble is being released by Magnolia on the same day.

[The Invunche]

You're probably right, but then you just wait another fifteen seconds and download a patch or enter a remote hack to undo the firmware you've just had to install to play the stupid region coded discs in the first place.

Maybe, but we're entering new territory with networked players. There has been rumors that hacked players will be disabled or something similiar.