criterionforum.org

Well, that's just silly as all heck.

Blu-ray really does have a long way to go. It's too expensive for the masses and it's too restricted and 'dumbed down' (DNR, edge-enhancement, etc.) for the enthusiasts.

Got a different dilemma myself; despite all that talk about America as 'ultra-conservative,' Australia is the country that still has Salo on its 'banned' list.
Pity, too, this is a movie I would have even considered paying $40 for, given the abundant extras, and the possibility of a very grainy, 'film-like' transfer.

Actually, if you know where to look and are willing to pay what SDVD region-free machines were going for in 1999 you could get a region-free BR player that plays both NTSC and PAL content without a problem. I personally would wait a bit longer for the appropriate parties to modify the latest SONY Sapphires though.

As to the "expensive" bit...I disagree. Criterion are set to introduce their BDs boasting the same price tag their DVDs do. The more we go into the Fall/Winter the better the pricing will be for the majority of the BDs (First Look Features just introduced The Proposition for 13.95$, pre-order, and Paris, Je T'aime at 16.99$, etc). Studio Canal's entire output starting this August 1 will be introduced at 19.99 Euro, etc.

I think a lot of people want to see DVD sale prices as quickly as possible forgetting how DVD got those to begin with.

Pro-B

pro-bassoonist wrote:As to the "expensive" bit...I disagree. Criterion are set to introduce their BDs boasting the same price tag their DVDs do. The more we go into the Fall/Winter the better the pricing will be for the majority of the BDs (First Look Features just introduced The Proposition for 13.95$, pre-order, and Paris, Je T'aime at 16.99$, etc). Studio Canal's entire output starting this August 1 will be introduced at 19.99 Euro, etc.

Well, the expensive bit is getting the equipment in the first place! Getting into DVD back in 1999 cost me £200, but getting into Blu-Ray has set me back about £1200, because of the need to buy a 1080p television on top of the player.

On the other hand, I've been very pleasantly surprised by the prices of the actual discs, and there are loads of bargains out there.

There certainly are good prices out there, if you're prepared to look for them.

But, for the mass consumer, they just go to the local department store and see Blu-Ray movies for $40 without any extras... it's probably a bit off-putting.

Not sure if this has been brought to attention but public domain goes Blu with the release of 'Beat The Devil', for the low price of 7.95!

This one's news to me, but there's been a few public domain releases already.

Two seperate Bob Hope double features came out on HDDVD (and reportedly had pretty impressive transfers, all things considered)
And 'The Terror' is getting released on blu-ray in, I think, October.

Also, while not 'public domain' there's been a Paul Naschy double-feature, presenting the types of movies usually consigned to the bargain bin, and I think a karate double feature by the same company.

davidhare wrote:Kiddo last time I looked in a general store lilke JB they were around 50 bucks.

JB have a 2 for $50 sale on selected BD atm. Not many titles of interest but the Kubricks are included.

MichaelB wrote:Well, the expensive bit is getting the equipment in the first place! Getting into DVD back in 1999 cost me £200, but getting into Blu-Ray has set me back about £1200, because of the need to buy a 1080p television on top of the player.

On the other hand, I've been very pleasantly surprised by the prices of the actual discs, and there are loads of bargains out there.

Well, Michael we bought our first DVD player in 1997 and paid for it a little less than 1000$. Then about two years later I paid a little over 400$ for my first DVD player, SONY, which I had until a few months ago. So, as far as I am concerned the hardware pricing has been moving much faster on the BD end. With software it is even better. Paramount and FOX for example where way above 34.99$ well into 2000. And I already see regularly priced BDs at BB for 18.99 (Warner) titles. Where SDVD has outdone BD so far - the freebees. Back in the days of 800.com and Reel.com you could literally take away a dozen DVDS for free. With BD, aside from the BOGOs, you had to pay to own a disc. Still, with Warner's upcoming mass reduction of their titles starting this Fall and smaller studios already introducing sub 15$ pre-orders I think that everything should line up just fine in time for the Holidays.

Pro-B

Just to answer my own question about The Shining, the Canadian Blu-Ray is indeed the 144-minute cut - so it seems that it's only the European releases that get the shorter version.

Good news on the subject of 'Region Free,' I just stumbled on a free Blu-ray Region Code Remover. I haven't tested it (don't have any region locked blu-rays) but there it is.

The Fanciful Norwegian wrote:Unfortunately the second disc of standard-def PAL content will be unplayable on a U.S./NTSC PS3, as the PS3 won't do the standards conversion (even for region-free discs).

That's weird - my British PS3 has no problem playing NTSC material! Mind you, I suspect it probably puts out a pure NTSC signal which my television has no problem dealing with.

PAL players and TVs have always had far fewer problems playing NTSC than vice versa since the days of VHS. Good to hear the UK PS3 can do NTSC fine, but I would check if the opposite can be done before splashing out.

The big stuff is starting to come out on Blu-ray.

I don't know if this fits here exactly, but I needed to vent my frustration somewhere. I was just trying to find a copy of a certain recent Oscar winning thriller on Blu-ray, so I thought I'd hit a few Brick & Mortars. During this debacle, I learned the following:

1. Wal-Mart only stocks the brand new new releases, on a modestly sized shelf at the end of an aisle. This does not include my movie, already 5 months old. Per an employee there: "Yeah, we don't have very good selection."

2. FYE has better selection, but they were asking $40 for it, which is $5 above MSRP and a $15 premium above the SD version. Who in their right mind would pay $40 to own a movie? (Well, a movie that is readily available online for half that price anyway.)

If you ask me, this does not bode well for the success of the format.

To be fair, WalMart has scaled back their media section (particularly music) extensively, giving it less and less floorspace. Their DVD selection has always been abysmal and it would seem unlikely they would give a new format, that is only a niche play right now, premium floorspace especially as the market enters a recession. And yeah, I realize the situation is a catch 22 but Blu won't gain any real traction until studios start releasing titles exclusively in the format or have BD versions that have vastly superior extras and feature wise to their SD counterpart.

As I recall, when DVD started, it was also ridiculously priced and selection was fairly random. Once the players dropped in price and more titles became available, everything fell into place. The hardware manufacturers still need to deliver a BD player, that isn't a PS3, for under $150. Until that happens, BD will continue to be underrepresented in the majority of brick and mortar stores.

swo17 wrote:If you ask me, this does not bode well for the success of the format.

I'm wondering if you're worrying a little more than you should. When DVDs came out they were expensive also.

I'm not so much concerned about the price in general as much as how they are being treated in the big retail stores (i.e. marginalized or overpriced), which is where I presume the average Joe6Pack buys his movies. (Yes, I know that saying Joe6Pack makes me sort of racist.) And when I say "overpriced" I don't mean that Blu-rays in general are prohibitively expensive. I mean that it is crazy that FYE would actually charge $5 above MSRP for something that is already a bit pricey to begin with. Though for all I know, they do the same thing on their SD releases as well.

EDIT: I just looked this up. For this particular release, FYE charges $3 below MSRP for SD and $5 above for Blu-ray. So they've turned a $5 premium for Blu-ray into a $13 premium. This is putting the Blu-ray further out of reach, but it also begs another question: How in the hell do stores like this stay in business? Have that many people really not heard of the internet?

What film is this? A friend of mine was also telling me how hard is getting new Blu Ray releases at B&Ms. He was trying to buy The Proposition and it was nowhere to be found.

As for FYE and their pricing structure, it has always been that shitty. They still wonder why their stores have been struggling and their stocks drop.

Online has become the best friend for Blu Ray. You can find the best deals on a daily basis at Amazon, DD, and even at Barnes & Noble.com.

dx23 wrote:What film is this?

Someone in the film had a notorious haircut. And won an Oscar. And English is his second language.

swo17 wrote:

dx23 wrote:What film is this?

Someone in the film had a notorious haircut. And won an Oscar. And English is his second language.

Actually, if it is No Country for Old Men, they had it in stock when it was released back in March. I purchased it with a $5 off coupon that the DVD release had.

dx23 wrote:What film is this? A friend of mine was also telling me how hard is getting new Blu Ray releases at B&Ms. He was trying to buy The Proposition and it was nowhere to be found.

Took three weeks before I saw Dark City on a shelf.

I don't like it, but it probably makes sense from their business point of view. Movies like The Proposition are a relatively small market share, and being on BD makes it even smaller.

In the case of "The Proposition" it seems to be sold out everywhere (including online stores like DVDPacific) and probably has more to do with the demand ($13 on a movie full of epic vistas, I think that makes it pretty much a 'must buy' for anyone with a blu-ray player)

I think that the Proposition hasn't been released on BD even if it was on schedule. No retailer seems to have it, there is no cover at Amazon.com and no one that I know has recieved a copy, not even for review. It may have been delayed.

dx23 wrote:I think that the Proposition hasn't been released on BD even if it was on schedule. No retailer seems to have it, there is no cover at Amazon.com and no one that I know has recieved a copy, not even for review. It may have been delayed.

My copy from dvdplanet arrived yesterday, shipped on the 13th.

Edit: dvdbeaver had a review a while back complete with snaps of BR vs DVD