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It's a good quarter-century since I saw it, but if I remember rightly Moroder's own music was actually rather effective - it was only the blatantly shoehorned songs originally written for other contexts that stuck out like the proverbial sore thumb.

Tribe wrote:

colinr0380 wrote:I really like the Moroder version, but then its the one I was most familiar with for a long time. It would certainly be nice to keep it for posterity, even if Lang would likely have been upset at the rock score, sound effects and colour tinting if he had still been around to object!

I don't have any general issues with using contemporary music for silent films. For example, I'm a big fan of Michael Nyman's soundtrack for Man With a Movie Camera. But some thought has to be put into the music and the context where it will used and the like. And in that respect it always seemed to me that the music Moroder used in his version of Metropolis was limited to whatever he could gain the rights to. It never appeared to me that much thought was put into how the music related to the particular scenes.

Talking of contemporary scores for silent films, retro-synth group Zombie-Zombie will be performing a new score for Battleship Potemkin at the BFI in May. here

tavernier wrote:I knew Morodor's version had its uses.

The VHS makes a perfectly adequate paperweight.
A DVD would make a nice coaster.

Kino is really impressive in releasing quality Blu-rays. I think it's good news for us all.

edit: And it seems Kino changed the English translation back to "Men and Maggots", which is different from its Ultimate Edition DVD. Curious to see if they also changed the titlecards on the English version for the Blu-ray.

So instead of using seamless branching for the different language intertitles or just providing optional English subtitles they put two complete movies on the disk and waste all that space that could have been used for a much higher bitrate. I don't understand.

From what I understand, seamless branching is not a simple thing to do, it's not just out there like a button to push. Ever since DVD era, very few studios have been able to output seamless branching discs.

I'm not saying Kino is not capable of doing it, but the simple truth is, in the past ten years or so, almost no studios specializing in art/foreign/indie films (CC, Kino, AE, MoC, ...) have been using seamless branching even when it's necessary.

I thought about this for Mont Alto's DVD release of The General, but initial trials were pretty dubious -- on my "simulation" I was getting a short pause and a drop-out in the musical score at the branch -- and I decided it wasn't that necessary. It may very well depend on the authoring software and the quality of the DVD player, and I wouldn't go there without testing it on a very wide range of players. As it is, there are cheap laptops that can't play our DVDs at all, for unclear reasons.

The problem with seamless branching is the wildly different results with different types of hardware (which run the full gamut from 'perfect', to 'momentary dropout', to 'complete malfunction'). So it's not really worth bothering with. Massive headache.

OK, regardless, why bother with English intertitles? It's a Kino fetish I know but anyway.

I think Kino (and Image) do it primarily to create "TV versions" which can play 'straight and clean' without requiring a separate subtitle track. Also, I think there's a perception that people (Americans) "can't be doing with that foreign writing crap".

It's kind of sad. I only buy silents with original language intertitles. I just find the heart and soul of a movie to be ripped out when they have been translated and replaced: this is even the case with languages I can't read.

I completely agree. They shouldn't be messing. The original intertitles are part of the film.

I am curious as to how the Kino Blu-ray of Potemkin is not interlaced; is there something about Blu-ray technology that allows a film shot at less than 24fps to be viewed progressively without interlacing?

Isn't the video progressive in terms of "whole frames" but interlaced within each frame and utilises a pulldown? It's pre-pulled or something?

Actually I don't know... this is one thing I really struggle to get my head around.

not just Kino, but remember that Criterion had the English intertitles option on "Vampyr". Oh well. I am glad that Kino is getting things right with their BDs. It's amazing how much they've done.

andyli wrote:Kino is really impressive in releasing quality Blu-rays. I think it's good news for us all.

They are indeed - I've just watched Fallen Angels.

Given that the cinematography features Christopher Doyle at his most wacked-out, I honestly can't imagine it looking much better - and I'd also say it was a more satisfying experience than my first 35mm viewing, which I seem to recall was off a print that had clearly been through quite a few projectors. (The image here, by contrast, is pristine, unless it isn't supposed to be).

I can also confirm that it's region-free, purely by dint of the fact that it plays perfectly on my Region B PS3.

tojoed wrote:Steamboat Bill Jnr on Blu-Ray in July.

Also (on DVD) Lost Keaton on July 6. A mistitled set as the Keaton Educationals have never been lost but usually available only from 16mm. Two were included on Kino's Keaton Plus set. They are not vintage Keaton but do include some of his most inventive sound work. On the whole, I prefer them to his Columbia shorts that were released a few years ago on DVD. It will be nice to have them all from 35mm but note the "less-than-perfect condition" caveat - I'm expecting quite a few jump-cut splices.

^ Awesome!

While I haven't jumped into BluRay yet, I am glad to see Kino getting some very good press for once. Anyone have any insight into why they are succeeding critically with their Blu Ray releases when they never have been able to get their act together with their DVD releases? Are they doing anything different in house?

Tribe wrote:While I haven't jumped into BluRay yet, I am glad to see Kino getting some very good press for once. Anyone have any insight into why they are succeeding critically with their Blu Ray releases when they never have been able to get their act together with their DVD releases? Are they doing anything different in house?

Well, they always seemed to stumble on PAL-->NTSC conversion, and that issue has been removed for 1080p. Don't know if that's all of it but it is one less place for them to f**k up.

TMDaines wrote:It's kind of sad. I only buy silents with original language intertitles. I just find the heart and soul of a movie to be ripped out when they have been translated and replaced: this is even the case with languages I can't read.

What's sad? They provided the original Russian intertitles with subs.

I think they provided the English cards on the second optional disc, like Nick said, from their TV-ready master, which was no doubt taken from their exhibition print (remember they're a cinematic distributor as well as a home vid co). I think they should be given credit for hearing our howls of protest, and-- while still placating those who Must Have English Title Cards instead of subs (or those who insist on simulating the contemporary experience of the silent era of ever-shifting title cards by region)-- going the extra mile of work and expense of creating and timing a sub file, and encoding two separate digital masters on disc, one for the hardcore like us, the rest for the general masses.

HerrSchreck wrote:

TMDaines wrote:It's kind of sad. I only buy silents with original language intertitles. I just find the heart and soul of a movie to be ripped out when they have been translated and replaced: this is even the case with languages I can't read.

What's sad? They provided the original Russian intertitles with subs.

Quoting me off-topic there. The discussion had moved on a bit to Kino in general, rather than the Potemkin release.

Blu-ray.com gave it a great review. Kino is pulling through Blu very pleasant.

Not the blu, but the SD SE.