Warner Brothers Archive Collection (DVDs only)

[Matt]

Bunch more classics (and the Korine) taken from pressed discs and relegated to Archive Hell

...Gummo?!

Hey, at least it's still available. They could have just taken it out of print entirely. (And no one would have noticed.)

[criterion10]

To be fair, I was really hoping that Criterion would have been interested in releasing Gummo. I now assume that they weren't though. Either that, or WB is still a stick in the mud about licensing.

[domino harvey]

Targets, Let's Scare Jessica to Death, David Copperfield, Marie Antoinette, Lady in a Cage, Hallelujah and His Majesty O'Keefe all now DVD to MOD disasters

[criterion10]

How is Targets? I've never seen it, but my library's had it for years. Might have to rent it and swap the DVD with the MOD disc from the Warner Archives...

[domino harvey]

I'm biased but it's fantastic. Even non-Bogdanovich-philes seem to like it

[Matt]

Might have to rent it and swap the DVD with the MOD disc from the Warner Archives...

Haha, cute. Don't you dare.

[felipe]

Is seems interest in these titles suddenly grows when they are announced as MOD discs, even though they've been available for such a long time.

[Minkin]

Ah fuck. Also Hammer's Frankenstein and the Monster from Hell (seriously Warner/Paramount? Do you realize theres a massive Hammer fan base?).

I blame everyone who has ever bought one of these DVD-Rs for the current suicide inducing world we live in.. where titles you fully expected to get lavish treatment get thrown into the shit barrel at Warner. Why not just wait for the thing to show up on TCM rather than fork out $20 for the likes? Sorry, I know we've had these anti-archive rants every few weeks, but I still don't understand why people buy them (let alone blind buy any title, let alone blind buy like 20 titles at a time). On principle, I can never support this program or any MOD program. The "hey lets buy something and show support for the movie so that it might get lavish treatment later on" has never proven true and has thus far only resulted in: "Hey every other studio with titles that were made before 2000 and didn't win an Oscar, do we have the solution for you - instead of reprinting your feature-laden dvds!"

The only thing that can temper my anger is that everything is DVD and perhaps Criterion's (and other company's) Dual Format decision will allow them to get some of these titles (Gaslight, Targets, the Sturges, Kurosawa, etc, etc, etc).

[Feego]

Ah fuck. Also Hammer's Frankenstein and the Monster from Hell (seriously Warner/Paramount? Do you realize theres a massive Hammer fan base?).

I blame everyone who has ever bought one of these DVD-Rs for the current suicide inducing world we live in.. where titles you fully expected to get lavish treatment get thrown into the shit barrel at Warner. Why not just wait for the thing to show up on TCM rather than fork out $20 for the likes? Sorry, I know we've had these anti-archive rants every few weeks, but I still don't understand why people buy them (let alone blind buy any title, let alone blind buy like 20 titles at a time). On principle, I can never support this program or any MOD program. The "hey lets buy something and show support for the movie so that it might get lavish treatment later on" has never proven true and has thus far only resulted in: "Hey every other studio with titles that were made before 2000 and didn't win an Oscar, do we have the solution for you - instead of reprinting your feature-laden dvds!"

The only thing that can temper my anger is that everything is DVD and perhaps Criterion's (and other company's) Dual Format decision will allow them to get some of these titles (Gaslight, Targets, the Sturges, Kurosawa, etc, etc, etc).

Because it works the other way too. If no one buys them, Warner can just as easily say, "Aw screw it. People aren't interested in these movies," and never make them available at all. That actually seems a far more likely scenario than the people in charge saying, "Gee, no one's buying these long unavailable movies on DVD-R. Let's give them massive new Blu-ray releases with hours worth of academic features. That'll draw in the crowds!" It's clear that Warner has little interest in these films to begin with, so as a consumer you choose between seeing them in inferior quality or not seeing them at all. Not all of these movies show up on TCM with any regularity (if ever) either.

[Matt]

In fact, once a film becomes available from Warner Archive, and usually after a single showing timed to promote the release, it tends to disappear from future TCM schedules.

[criterion10]

Is seems interest in these titles suddenly grows when they are announced as MOD discs, even though they've been available for such a long time.

Well, I can't speak for everyone, but in my case, many of the titles that suffer DVD to MOD disaster are films that I eventually planned to check out at some point. Being that I'm very young and still have many other films to see, Targets was simply never a film that I had a chance to get around to, despite that I always knew about it and kept it on my radar.

I still don't understand why people buy them

I only own three films from the Warner Archive collection: The Boy Friend, Savage Messiah, and Lisztomania. All films are directed by Ken Russell, and I purchased them after I had made an effort to search out the late director's body of work. There was no other way for me to get a hold of these films, so what was I supposed to do?

I'm sure that if this day forward, not a single person bought a DVD from the Archives and made it clear to Warner Bros. that they were disappointed with their program, something would change. But, I doubt that will happen. Head over to the Facebook page for the Warner Archives and you'll see that many people are happy with the program, and based on WB's output of titles every week, something tells me that they have no incentive to stop their program anytime soon. And so, if there's ever a film here or there that I really want from the Archives, I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and buy a product even though I don't fully endorse it.

[Minkin]

Because it works the other way too. If no one buys them, Warner can just as easily say, "Aw screw it. People aren't interested in these movies," and never make them available at all. That actually seems a far more likely scenario than the people in charge saying, "Gee, no one's buying these long unavailable movies on DVD-R. Let's give them massive new Blu-ray releases with hours worth of academic features. That'll draw in the crowds!" It's clear that Warner has little interest in these films to begin with, so as a consumer you choose between seeing them in inferior quality or not seeing them at all. Not all of these movies show up on TCM with any regularity (if ever) either.

That is quite true. There are movies (such as Dante's Inferno - from Fox archive - where, if I didn't already have it recorded, I'd probably eventually buy it). I am happy that some movies get to see the light of day, but those aren't the titles that makes everyone want to jump off a building. Its when their darling titles, which have already been released on DVD in the past, are taken OOP and dumped into the archive. Granted, it probably doesn't make any financial sense for any of the studios to reprint any DVDs other than 2000s titles at this point (or a 7th iteration of Casablanca or Clockwork Orange), but its hard to see that there wouldn't be a massive audience for the Hammer film or Get Carter, etc.

I regularly see Archive stuff show up on TCM. Perhaps you have to wait an extra few months, but I'm sure most of us have such a huge backlog of Kevyip anyway (plus, if the title is barebones and has an unknown but expectantly short shelf-life (DVD-R), wouldn't you rather just record it rather than shell out $20? Hell, you even get a Robert or Ben introduction most of the time for the movie, which is more than you can say about the Archive for the bulk of their stuff).

The problem is, many of these titles are things we all clamor for and hope for deluxe editions (which other regions even get!). So when Universal dumps Ruggles of Red Gap in the archive, it just says "well, so much for that movie, nobody wants it anyway." In that case, we are lucky to have the MOC bluray (which everyone should buy), but other titles aren't quite so lucky. That Targets is in the Archive states that either Criterion/Shout passed on it or the studios don't care about it. But its such a huge title that would undobutedly sell well on bluray if it were licensed to anyone (just stick Karloff all over it and it will be a big seller). Since the only thing to make it out of the archive (to my knowledge) is the MST3K version of Mitchell, and nothing else has gone from Archive to bluray, it seems that the archive is the dumpster for movies which the studios think nobody wants. Thus in answer to Felipe: We aren't suddenly interested in these titles, we're just mad that nobody seems to care enough about them for them to get great editions.

Perhaps if Warner's Bluray output of classic titles were better (they've really slowed down this past year, only Fox seems to be on the ball), or if their bluray upgrades made any sense (Hans Christian Andersen? Really?). People have already voted with their wallets and somehow interpreted the Archive as "good value" thus we will see more studios dump even more ludicrous titles in the Archive. Unless Criterion can save something under the Dual-Format bluray loophole, we should be seeing more and more Futurama memes. I just wish this beast would have been stopped before it came to this point.

[Feego]

Another film that inexplicably (but fortunately) went from Warner Archive to pressed disc is Invitation to the Dance, which was released last year in a 4-film Gene Kelly set.

Thus in answer to Felipe: We aren't suddenly interested in these titles, we're just mad that nobody seems to care enough about them for them to get great editions.

This is definitely true in my case. I think this is also partly why I am more forgiving of a lot of Archive releases of films that have never made it to DVD, because at least they are now available in some form. Something is better than nothing. But when movies go from pressed disc to DVD-R, it's a clear demotion from something superior to something merely adequate. I really am ticked about Targets, because that's actually been out of print for a long time now. I first saw the movie about four years ago on TCM, and by that point it was already OOP. So to see it finally come back in this condition is disappointing.

[dustybooks]

I've been grateful to the WB Archive for making certain long-rare titles available, but seeing a wonderful and historically important film like Targets relegated to burn-on-demand status is just every kind of disheartening. I've recommended and shared that film with so many people over the years; it doesn't feel at all like a "niche" movie (nor does Miracle of Morgan's Creek, of course) but I guess that just demonstrates how out of sync I am.

Small comfort that the special features from the Paramount DVD are making the transition, though, because I remember them being fascinating.

[captveg]

TCM broadcasts? I haven't had cable since 2005. I'm more than OK with DVD-R. I have two (Bachelor Mother from Warner and Dreamchild from MGM) and for the couple times I've watched each they've served me just fine. Probably helps that I let them sit in a case between viewings instead of dragging them across broken shards of glass.

[Ashirg]

They probably take into account how well the title sold on regular DVD in its initial run. That's why Targets and Miracle of Morgan's Creek get MOD DVD-Rs, but titles like Good Burger, Soapdish and Bug (1975) get pressed DVD releases from Paramount/Warner in September. Virgin Suicides will also be released on pressed DVD.

[captveg]

Virgin Suicides will also be released on pressed DVD.

Huh, though that had reverted to American Zoetrope. Guess not.

[felipe]

I'm sure that if this day forward, not a single person bought a DVD from the Archives and made it clear to Warner Bros. that they were disappointed with their program, something would change.

A lot of those titles were either never released on DVD or out of print for a long time, so yeah, we could see a change if they stopped the program but I bet it would be for the worst.

[Reverend Drewcifer]

Targets added to the archive with the Bogdanovich commentary and Introduction.

[felipe]

It's clear that Warner has little interest in these films to begin with, so as a consumer you choose between seeing them in inferior quality or not seeing them at all. Not all of these movies show up on TCM with any regularity (if ever) either.

I'm sure that if those titles generated money Warner would be interested in them. Warner used to release tons of classic films in great boxsets, and if these releases were making a bigger profit than Archive I don't see why they'd have stopped releasing them.

[criterion10]

Uh, not sure when this happened, but it seems that Friedkin's Cruising has joined the excessive number of DVD to MOD titles.

[rockysds]

William Powell at Warner Bros.

Contains four pre-codes: The Road to Singapore (1931); High Pressure (1931), Private Detective 62 (1933) and The Key (1934). It's basically a Forbidden Hollywood-set by another name, since:

Initial quantities of this release will be traditionally replicated (pressed) in anticipation of high consumer demand.

[BillWatkins]

5 for $50 sale until September 9 at midnight.

[rrot]

5 for $50 sale until September 9 at midnight.

And this apparently means $10 a piece, once you get to $50. And shipping is free too. But there are plenty of excluded titles. (No to Lubitsch's The Merry Widow, no to The Miracle of Morgan's Creek).

[felipe]

Too bad the Warner Archive website doesn't ship overseas. I just B&N would have an Archive sale once in a while.