criterionforum.org

Posted: **Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:52 pm**

Orlac wrote:
Ogre Kovacs wrote:I was doing a re-watch of the 2006 DVD re-issue from Criterion and noticed something strange that I did not notice before. Right at the beginning of Chapter 8 at 32:44 into the film, there is a gentleman sweeping in front of a square backdrop. The edge of him appears squared out like the background. I took some fast screen shots to show the issue. This does not seem like an error with my specific disc but rather something with the transfer. However, I have not read any other mentions of this online.

Anyone else seen this or can verify if it is like this on the Blu-ray? Could it be my equipment is set to some enhancement I am unaware of? I did try it on 3 different set-ups with the same results. Thanks for any input. Just curious what this is more than anything.

EDIT: Note that these are very fast screen captures not intended to be representative of the quality of the transfer, but rather just demonstrate the issue observed.

That goof is also on the BFI BD - it looks quite different to the Criterion, with incorrect black levels, but much better contrast.

I recall something like this going on in one of the Zatoichi films, backdrop was a window of some sort, somewhat resembling horizontal blinds. Once or twice elsewhere also.

Posted: **Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:18 pm**

Orlac wrote:
Ogre Kovacs wrote:I was doing a re-watch of the 2006 DVD re-issue from Criterion and noticed something strange that I did not notice before. Right at the beginning of Chapter 8 at 32:44 into the film, there is a gentleman sweeping in front of a square backdrop. The edge of him appears squared out like the background. I took some fast screen shots to show the issue. This does not seem like an error with my specific disc but rather something with the transfer. However, I have not read any other mentions of this online.

Anyone else seen this or can verify if it is like this on the Blu-ray? Could it be my equipment is set to some enhancement I am unaware of? I did try it on 3 different set-ups with the same results. Thanks for any input. Just curious what this is more than anything.

EDIT: Note that these are very fast screen captures not intended to be representative of the quality of the transfer, but rather just demonstrate the issue observed.

That goof is also on the BFI BD - it looks quite different to the Criterion, with incorrect black levels, but much better contrast.

Sorry to resurrect such an old thread, but I thought I'd clear it up.
It's not any sort of goof or issue with the transfer, just how it was shot.
Those windows are actually very narrow, just slits really. They appear wider during the pan as the shutter is open for a finite amount of time during each frame, and the camera is moving, so the image of the slit moves too, exposing a greater area of film (or leaving a trail if you like). Therefore, if the man sweeping is blocking the slit while the shutter is open, then no trail will be left, leaving a whole 'rectangle' appearing dark, compared to the surrounding windows. Hope that makes any sort of sense.

Posted: **Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:11 pm**

Then how would you explain the missing part of his head? Going by this cap, it looks very much like an encoding error and not an optical anomaly, where the software has failed to recognise where the actor stops and the background begins; and no one went back to fix it.

Posted: **Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:04 pm**

If anyone has the old non-anamorphic BFI disc, that should prove interesting.

Posted: **Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:59 am**

And UPDATE: the non-anamorphic BFI DVD has the same thing. So it looks like a strange error in the original filmaking, as it's on three completely different transfers.

Posted: **Tue Oct 15, 2024 4:18 pm**

4K Jan 7

Posted: **Tue Oct 15, 2024 6:21 pm**

Apparently in a slightly different aspect ratio, at 2.39:1 compared to the, presumably repackaged, Blu-ray edition at 2.35:1

Posted: **Tue Oct 15, 2024 6:25 pm**

Always great to see more Toho titles get an upgrade to 4K, though I do wish they would also upgrade their DVD only releases as well like Stray Dog or Red Beard. Hell, I would love to see Toho titles that they haven't released yet like Under the Blossoming Cherry Trees or the non-Godzilla Honda films that are on the channel.

Posted: **Wed Oct 16, 2024 12:50 am**

I’d take Red Beard over these any day. Oh well. It’s what sells, I guess.

Posted: **Wed Oct 16, 2024 1:10 am**

denti alligator wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2024 12:50 am I’d take Red Beard over these any day. Oh well. It’s what sells, I guess.

I agree. But must admit I find Sanjuro rather endearing, with great silent era star Takako Irie thoroughly taming Mifune. Yojimbo is WAY too nihilistic for me to love.

Posted: **Wed Oct 16, 2024 1:18 am**

Yojimbo finally clicked for me when I realized it was a black comedy, but it's never been a favourite. Sanjuro, tho', I've always been a fan of. It's likeable and charming, with more excitement than the fairly action-less Yojimbo.

Posted: **Wed Oct 16, 2024 1:56 am**

Sanjuro also has one of the most jaw dropping final shots. I also prefer it to Yojimbo and think it's one of Kurosawa's most effortlessly entertaining and briskly paced films.

Posted: **Wed Oct 16, 2024 3:41 am**

Very glad these are getting 4K upgrades. Yojimbo is very important to me and it’s very dear to my heart. Sanjuro is a blast as well.

The character of Sanjuro is Mifune’s best role imho as well

Posted: **Wed Oct 16, 2024 4:02 am**

I have to agree that Sanjuro is a far superior film to Yojimbo.

Posted: **Wed Oct 16, 2024 4:14 am**

The blood hose certainly helps

Posted: **Wed Oct 16, 2024 11:33 am**

Yojimbo (which I had seen on TV) was possibly the first "hey, I know that reference!" I spotted in a film, when I saw The Bodyguard with my family at the cinema.

Posted: **Fri Jan 10, 2025 2:32 pm**

nicolas wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2025 9:59 pm Yojimbo by Criterion is a great upgrade to their old BD. They’re using the Toho master, which is fine but has some grain management and it was graded to look rather monochrome.

The monochrome look really bothered me with this one for some reason. It really flattens the image out compared to the higher contrast in previous presentations (including a screening I went to), though I guess some details are a bit more apparent, like clouds in the sky. I have BFI's Blu-ray for High and Low and it's the same thing there, too (with some grain management). For some reason, this didn't stick out to me with Seven Samurai, but it's become more apparent with these other presentations. Both are still technically better than the old Criterion Blu-rays, though.

Posted: **Fri Jan 10, 2025 6:39 pm**

cdnchris wrote: Fri Jan 10, 2025 2:32 pm
nicolas wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2025 9:59 pm Yojimbo by Criterion is a great upgrade to their old BD. They’re using the Toho master, which is fine but has some grain management and it was graded to look rather monochrome.
The monochrome look really bothered me with this one for some reason. It really flattens the image out compared to the higher contrast in previous presentations (including a screening I went to), though I guess some details are a bit more apparent, like clouds in the sky. I have BFI's Blu-ray for High and Low and it's the same thing there, too (with some grain management). For some reason, this didn't stick out to me with Seven Samurai, but it's become more apparent with these other presentations. Both are still technically better than the old Criterion Blu-rays, though.

Thanks for the info. I’ve already got a chance to see the new grade when Toho released their 4K and agree with your sentiment. I was hoping that Criterion would improve the master after their fantastic damage cleanup for Seven Samurai. Hopefully BFI are the saving grace as they’re putting out Yojimbo and Sanjuro with HDR / Dolby Vision. Based on your wording I assume grain management isn’t a concern at the very least with these two?

It’d be interesting to see how High and Low turns out if Criterion puts it out in 4K and whether they’re actually able to access these Toho masters at an earlier mastering stage which some of us suspected after their Seven Samurai 4K brought back a layer of grain that Toho wiped off for their own release. Same applies to High and Low as well, which is an otherwise gorgeous 4K master.

Posted: **Fri Jan 10, 2025 6:41 pm**

I always felt the Criterion BDs of these looked far too overdone in the contrast section.

Posted: **Fri Jan 10, 2025 8:11 pm**

cdnchris wrote: Fri Jan 10, 2025 2:32 pm
nicolas wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2025 9:59 pm Yojimbo by Criterion is a great upgrade to their old BD. They’re using the Toho master, which is fine but has some grain management and it was graded to look rather monochrome.
The monochrome look really bothered me with this one for some reason. It really flattens the image out compared to the higher contrast in previous presentations (including a screening I went to), though I guess some details are a bit more apparent, like clouds in the sky. I have BFI's Blu-ray for High and Low and it's the same thing there, too (with some grain management). For some reason, this didn't stick out to me with Seven Samurai, but it's become more apparent with these other presentations. Both are still technically better than the old Criterion Blu-rays, though.

I remember Lee Kline mentioning that the Japanese companies tended to grade their masters flatter, less contrasty and Crirerion would have to argue with them to get them to do deeper black levels.

Posted: **Sat Jan 11, 2025 10:43 pm**

dwk wrote: Fri Jan 10, 2025 8:11 pm I remember Lee Kline mentioning that the Japanese companies tended to grade their masters flatter, less contrasty and Criterion would have to argue with them to get them to do deeper black levels.

When Masters of Cinema was regularly releasing black and white Japanese movies, they always favored this low-contrast look as more faithful to the original look while Criterion always likes to push the contrast range from pure white to pure black.

Posted: **Sun Jan 12, 2025 5:45 pm**

Matt wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2025 10:43 pm
dwk wrote: Fri Jan 10, 2025 8:11 pm I remember Lee Kline mentioning that the Japanese companies tended to grade their masters flatter, less contrasty and Criterion would have to argue with them to get them to do deeper black levels.
When Masters of Cinema was regularly releasing black and white Japanese movies, they always favored this low-contrast look as more faithful to the original look while Criterion always likes to push the contrast range from pure white to pure black.

But wasn't the justification here that MOC was taking the masters and using them "as is"? I felt like MOC was defending a more hands-off approach, which doesn't necessarily mean it was historically accurate, especially if the masters they weren't touching were actually just dated/inaccurate?

Posted: **Sun Jan 12, 2025 6:55 pm**

Matt wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2025 10:43 pm When Masters of Cinema was regularly releasing black and white Japanese movies

Sigh…the good old days…

Posted: **Sun Jan 12, 2025 8:09 pm**

Drucker, I guess I meant to say that MoC was given the low-contrast masters and told by the Japanese studios that they reflected the authentic look of the originals. Then MoC repeated that as justification for not tinkering with the masters.

Posted: **Sun Jan 12, 2025 11:00 pm**

Ah fair enough!

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