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Having seen both Virgin's Spring and Winter Light in my local art house, and finding much to like in them but also coming disappointed (perhaps due to my very high expectations) and I'm wondering if I might simply have a problem with Bergman. Especially Winter Light, which I expected to be a lot more engaging due to its high esteem yet found very distant and not much engaging (I know the film is a cold and depressing one. Not my issue with the film. Rather that I was left apathetic by it)

Bergman may or may not be for you, but I encourage you to not stop at two films before making up your mind, even if those are widely considered by many (including me) to be his best

I would say -- check our some of these (Wild Strawberries, Seventh Seal, Smiles of a Summer Night, and Fanny and Alexander) before deciding Bergman has nothing to please you. (I find I like some things a lot, but others ... not so much).

I felt somewhat similarly toward Bergman (admirable but maybe not for me) before I saw Persona, which flipped the switch in my head.

Persona is one of the films that I found "admirable" but did not really connect with. Winter Light, on the other hand, I found very appealing (despite its grimness).

The thing about Bergman that I've never been able to grasp (In terms of how divided some people can be.) is that some people see the whole world in his works and other people (Like John Rosenbaum) don't really seem to see anything at all. I don't even think Bergman is all the divisive but I've always felt like people sometimes truly did not see what others did.

I love Bergman's films and my favorite is probably The Silence but that's a rather bad film to start out on in my opinion.

I think the one that flipped my switch was Scenes from a Marriage. Before that, I pushed myself through several of his more renowned classics that I only later came to appreciate.

Through a Glass Darkly is the one that got me.

Autumn Sonata was the very first Bergman film I watched. It remains one of my all-time favorites. Never had to switch a flip.

I saw Autumn Sonata when I was really getting into movies in high school and it was like wandering out of Plato's Cave for the first time.

I love Wild Strawberries and Seventh Seal, but I've been feeling like I'm hitting a wall with my recent watches of his. I expected Winter Light to move me in such a way as Tarkovsky or Kieslowski do as faith is one of my most cherished and important "theme" (see also Dreyer and Angelopoulos) but I walked away so numb from it (I enjoyed Spring a lot more but also ended up feeling a shrug at the end). I'm asking because I want to get this box set but also don't want it to be the Out 1 problem again where it sits at my shelf indefinitely.

My first Bergman was Cries and Whispers, and I wish I built to that one rather than starting there. Maybe go back to early films like Summer with Monika and Smiles of a Summer Night. Both are excellent examples of his style and themes, but they aren't necessarily as lofty as his later films.

I've also seen and liked that but less so on a second viewing. I think my biggest problem is that I love his work when it reaches for the magnificently visual (beginning of Wild Strawberries, all of Seventh Seal, that beautiful scene in Scenes where we hear the car driving away while remaining on Ullmann's face) but I check out when his characters start talking and abusing each other in lengthy dialogue heavy scenes (the last part of the theatrical Scenes for example).

The Silence was the one for me. Bergman's tendencies in dialogue were the major thing holding me back so being freed of that let me look at and appreciate what there is to like about him. In light of that maybe one of his intimate films like Autumn Sonata or Wild Strawberries would be the next best place to go.

I started off with the duo of Shame and Passion of Anna (shot almost concurrently on Faro). I guess if you can deal with the rawness of brutality both physical and psychological in those everything else is a sleigh ride. Cries and whispers would also rank as a wonderful baptism of fire for those wanting to test their gall.

Cries & Whispers was my first, back in 2002. I immediately ordered every Bergman that Criterion had put out.

I would guess that Fanny and Alexander is the ultimate Bergman film (in both ways). That's where I would start if I was coming in blind...either that or chronologically at Seventh Seal (and omitting the less popular ones). You see those two and don't connect...well I dunno, stop watching movies, because that's a pretty unassailable achievement.

That's a bit extreme. I know if I had started with Fanny and Alexander I would probably not have continued again for many years. Different people are going to like different things by him.

Ok sure, I love Summer with Monika, but it's not Bergmany enough. If you like Bergman, you like those two. I don't think it's terribly unfair to say that If you don't like Bergman, you're missing out on something important concerning film. I'm not a Kubrick fanatic, but I definitely think people should see his movies if they like movies because it informs the artform so much. "Connect" is probably unfair...I agree...how about "Appreciate"?

Yeah, I say don't even worry about whether you're connecting with him each step of the way. There are certain films that if you're interested in being a cinephile, you simply have to see and understand what they're doing to be in on the greater conversation. Bergman made at least 10 of these. I would list them as follows (even if some of these aren't necessarily my personal favorites):

Sawdust and Tinsel
The Seventh Seal
Wild Strawberries
The Virgin Spring
Winter Light
Persona
Shame
Cries & Whispers
Scenes from a Marriage
Fanny and Alexander

Everyone's list would be different but I should think like half of these would be on every one of them.

Not sure if this was just added today, but besides the 4k restoration of The Seventh Seal, they mention that three other films will be new restorations (albeit 2k restorations): Crisis, Fanny and Alexander (which version or both versions, it doesn't say) and Persona. Thing is, Criterion's current edition of Persona (which came out four years ago) also says it's a 2k restoration, so I'm wondering if it's really the same restoration since it would seem a bit excessive to do two so close together.

If Cries and Whispers had been my first Bergman, it would have also been my last....

Michael Kerpan wrote: Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:09 pm If Cries and Whispers had been my first Bergman, it would have also been my last....

I like Cries and Whispers, but to bring up John Kirk again (for what, the hundredth time?), he emphatically stated that he believed Persona was the greatest film ever made while adding that Cries and Whispers was laughably bad to him.

Cries and Whispers was a really uncomfortable experience for me as Bergman managed to film the same exact way from grandmother died from cancer. It's weird the things that upset you isn't it. Perhaps it was the weeks I spent in the hospital with her I don't know. But the agony of the experience seems personified in that film for me. I think it's a great film but it's not one I can say I look forward to re-watching it. Had I watched it first I don't think I would have watched more Bergman without serious trepidation.

I would never say that Cries and Whispers was "laughably bad" -- just that I hated it. (I also hate Strindberg -- and this reminded me too much of his work).