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Hopefully we'll soon be able to celebrate the end of this saga with an announcement.

The thread itself is already sort of a "record", no?

CD Universe has pre-order up and lists this as an 8 disc set. If this is correct, I imagine that, except for the US cut of the first film, they are only going to include the Japanese cuts and the disc breakdown will be:
Godzilla (1954)
Godzilla, King of the Monsters (1956)

Godzilla Raids Again (1955)
King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)

Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)
Ghidorah, the Three-Headed Monster (1964)

Invasion of Astro-Monster (1965)
Ebirah, Horror of the Deep (1966)

Son of Godzilla (1967)
Destroy All Monsters (1968)

All Monsters Attack (1969)
Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)

Godzilla vs. Gigan (1972)
Godzilla vs. Megalon (1973)

Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla (1974)
Terror of Mechagodzilla (1975)

I could be wrong, but I imagine you could accomplish quite a lot with alternate audio and seamless branching.

I don't see why it being 8 discs would be indicative of that, considering the Zatoichi set was 9 discs and included 25 films total.

How about:

Godzilla (1954)
(+Godzilla, King of the Monsters)

Godzilla Raids Again (1955)
(+Gigantis the Fire Monster)
Rodan (1956)

King Kong vs. Godzilla (1962)
Mothra vs. Godzilla (1964)
(+Godzilla vs. the Thing)

Ghidorah, the Three-Headed Monster (1964)
(+Ghidrah, the Three-Headed Monster)
Invasion of Astro-Monster (1965)
(+Godzilla Vs. Monster Zero)

Ebirah, Horror of the Deep (1966)
Son of Godzilla (1967)
Destroy All Monsters (1968)

All Monsters Attack (1969)
(+Godzilla's Revenge)
Godzilla vs. Hedorah (1971)

Godzilla vs. Gigan (1972)
Godzilla vs. Megalon (1973)
Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla (1974)

Terror of Mechagodzilla (1975)
(+The Terror of Godzilla)
War of the Gargantuas (1966)

All I've included here are the additional films Classic Media released (Rodan and Gargantuas), which we know Criterion picked up, and the alternative cuts that featured on the Godzilla DVDs Classic Media released. These aren't alternative dubs but different cuts of the films.

And if King Kong vs Godzilla is included, both cuts being included would be a huge draw to the set and I’m sure Criterion would try to include both.

Also, and this was back in 2017 when they first appeared on Filmstruck so I don’t remember exactly, but some films had Japanese dialogue while others it was just an English dub. So I imagine most will be given both audio tracks besides a select few alternate cuts (KoTm, KK v G definitely but I’m not sure what other alternate cuts would be important enough to keep)

It's worth noting that these are not long films, and are in Scope, which means that a full feature encode even at optimum bitrate will take up a fair bit less space than one of a longer feature that fills more of the screen. The Zatoichi box set took advantage of a similar situation.

kcota17 wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:03 pm And if King Kong vs Godzilla is included, both cuts being included would be a huge draw to the set and I’m sure Criterion would try to include both.

Anything is possible at this point but I don't see why the US cut would be such a draw since it's readily available on Blu-ray already from Universal. They are in fact re-releasing it in September.

Since Kraken were not allowed to include the original US cuts/dubs, I'm not sure Toho will let Criterion, but I suppose it is possible. (I also kind of doubt that they will include the two non-Godzilla titles, even if they are in the same universe.)

Would be so much fun to get the US Godzilla vs the Smog Monster with the cheesy environmentalism song but I’m doubting Toho will allow it.

I really want another pop-up in this set, like in the Godzilla release (spine 594).

dwk wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:44 pm Since Kraken were not allowed to include the original US cuts/dubs, I'm not sure Toho will let Criterion, but I suppose it is possible. (I also kind of doubt that they will include the two non-Godzilla titles, even if they are in the same universe.)

I wouldn't say it's a matter of whether they were allowed so much as whether they could be bothered. Toho doesn't generally keep elements for localizations prepared by the US distributors handy*, so any company that wants to release them is basically on their own in terms of finding source materials and preparing a master, at which point Toho still has to approve it. Most smaller labels don't necessarily have the budget for that, and in Kraken's case, they were specifically targeting impulse-buyers at bargain-bin prices. In this situation, most of these smaller labels will simply take whatever is available to them and release it -- usually that's Toho's rather pitiful HD transfers from 2008, plus the export dubs commissioned by Toho from one of a number of small firms in Hong Kong or Tokyo, which sync right up to the Japanese version. Kraken was lucky in that TriStar had released the three Showa films they were handling on DVD with bespoke transfers in 2004, giving them a much better video source than Toho's transfers, but still no US dubs.

The only region 1/A discs since 2004 to include US-specific dubs have been Universal's King Kong vs. Godzilla discs (since they released the film back in the '60s and still had the elements on hand), Media Blasters'/Tokyo Shock's 2011 release of Destroy All Monsters (featured the US dub in poor quality and re-edited to sync to the Japanese cut), and Classic Media's 2007/2008 DVDs.

The CM discs were something of a labor of love by a number of big-name fans and genre scholars, and featured US versions presented various ways using various sources:

• Godzilla Raids Again: Seemingly a SD television master with a video-generated "Godzilla Raids Again" title card replacing the original "Gigantis the Fire Monster" card
• Mothra vs. Godzilla/Godzilla vs. the Thing: A mediocre cropped 1.78:1 transfer, possibly from Monsters HD
• Ghidrah the Three-Headed Monster: A somewhat dodgy OAR reconstruction utilizing an ancient videotape master of the US version and Toho's DVD master of the Japanese version
• Invasion of Astro-Monster/Monster Zero: Another dodgy reconstruction using a cropped 1.78:1 Monsters HD transfer and Toho's DVD master -- opening credits are in 1.78:1; other US-specific visuals are presented cropped to the "OAR" from the already cropped MHD transfer, or in the case of two location supers, rather imprecise digital recreations
• All Monsters Attack/Godzilla's Revenge: Another reconstruction; mostly fine as both versions are nearly identical. Opening credits in the Monsters HD transfer may have been squeezed to 1.78:1 rather than cropped, since they appear in the OAR here (presumably stretched back); end title card is double-cropped like the MZ visuals
• Terror of Mechagodzilla: Widescreen reconstruction of the UPA television version using Toho's DVD transfer and a 1.33:1 P&S broadcast master. Prologue with footage from Monster Zero and Godzilla's Revenge and opening credits are cropped to 1.78:1 from the already-cropped broadcast master; remainder of the film is from the OAR Japanese version, with a digital "The End" super added in English below the Japanese super.

These are the best presentations we've gotten of unique US versions on disc since Simitar's non-anamorphic letterboxed DVDs of Godzilla vs. the Thing, Monster Zero and Godzilla's Revenge in 1998. Unfortunately, they're all SD, so Criterion would have to track down film elements and scan/restore them themselves, and if what I've heard second-or third-hand is true, they may not have bothered.

*The only exception to this, as far as I know, is Toho's English version of Invasion of Astro-Monster, which is the US Monster Zero dub conformed to the Japanese cut of the film, filling in scenes cut from the US release with the Japanese audio and, for one line from Nick Adams, on-set audio that was dubbed over for the Japanese theatrical release. Interestingly, this soundtrack also retains the US version's music for the opening credits, which is a quiet and foreboding cue taken from later in the film as opposed to the Japanese version's rousing military march. Worth noting that while this does utilize the US dubbing, it doesn't fully preserve the film as it was released in the US.

I hope Criterion perseveres. I really want those English cuts.

LucariosJohnson wrote: Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:14 am Think the general hand-wringing about these not belonging in the "Collection" is a bit silly. As others have pointed out, the movies have some qualities (Tohoscope is gorgeous, detailed miniature effects), and deserve a restoration for a cultural perspective. I also think the idea that Ishiro Honda just stopped putting effort into these movies after the original is mostly garbage. 2001 cribs a lot of imagery from Monster Zero from what I remember. The hated Godzilla's Revege is a proto-version of Oshima's Boy and Kurosawa's Dodeskaden.

Right, obviously the Godzilla sequels aren't cinematic masterpieces but to act as if they aren't "worthy" of a Criterion release is just showing ignorance. Especially if it's just over an arbitrary number. They were the most widely seen Japanese films for decades, and they left a huge mark on culture. Films such as King Kong vs Godzilla, Mothra vs Godzilla, and Monster Zero aren't as thematically rich and emotionally resonant as the original Godzilla, but they're fine productions on their own and just as entertaining. The notion that everything but the original is churned out garbage is an easy idea to subscribe to but if the original film barely got it's widespread critical recognition when people finally noticed it's heavy handed themes 50 years later, perhaps the sequels will get their due soon enough.

Godzamera wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:17 pm I hope Criterion perseveres. I really want those English cuts.

We'll see. If they don't, there are always other options.

I 'd actually argue some are as thematically rich albeit in a different way. Fortunately I don't have to as the commentary to Mothra does just that.

Though it might not prove anything, but the English dubs have been playing on Svengoolie (on MeTV) for the past year+; they still have the Classic Media logo at the end, but it perhaps proves that the English dubs aren't entirely unavailable.

Don't know about the Criterion Channel, but on Filmstruck at least half the Godzilla films had english dubs available. I was actively seeking the dubs out, as my kids love the films and two of them are not quite at the age where subtitles help...

Fingers crossed

jwd5275 wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:20 am Don't know about the Criterion Channel, but on Filmstruck at least half the Godzilla films had english dubs available. I was actively seeking the dubs out, as my kids love the films and two of them are not quite at the age where subtitles help...

Those aren't the dubs we're worried about. Godzilla Raids Again, King Kong vs. Godzilla, Mothra vs. Godzilla, Ghidorah the Three-Headed Monster, and All Monsters Attack were (as far as we know) only dubbed for their US releases, most of which recut them, meaning there's no available dub that you can just sync to the Japanese version of the film. Those films are therefore in danger of lacking any English audio option on this set whatsoever.

On top of that, Godzilla vs. the Sea Monster, Son of Godzilla, Destroy All Monsters, and Godzilla vs. Hedorah all have multiple dubs -- Toho's export dubs that they commissioned themselves and which sync to the Japanese cuts, and dubs made by their US distributors for their stateside theatrical and television exhibition. The latter dubs are usually better, and they're the versions a lot of people grew up with on VHS and TV airings, but again, they're usually slightly recut and therefore can't just be slapped on the Japanese version. These films are likely to only feature the export dubs, which are the ones Toho keeps handy to give to US home video distributors, and the ones that appeared on Filmstruck and currently appear on the Criterion Channel.

(There's also Astro-Monster, which I explained in my previous post. That one's an odd case.)

It's finally over!!!

Forget spine 1000, an even greater milestone has been achieved: Godzilla vs Megalon is now the first film to get both the Criterion AND MST3K treatment. We've now achieved peak pop culture.

Brianruns10 wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:13 pm Forget spine 1000, an even greater milestone has been achieved: Godzilla vs Megalon is now the first film to get both the Criterion AND MST3K treatment. We've now achieved peak pop culture.

Ebirah, Horror of the Deep was also given the MST3K treatment, though it was its television edit that was used for the episode.

Fantastic news.

My only gripe would be the lack of any new involvement by David Kalat.

At least we still get the two commentary from the previous release