criterionforum.org

arsonfilms wrote:Also bear in mind that despite the space available on a blu-ray disc, HD video takes up a lot of space. SD special features could be squeezed onto anything, but HD special features could not. Think about what a blu-ray Moral Tales, Brazil, Arkadin or Leopard would cost.

Some extras probably won't, or need not, be in HD - trailers, interviews, old film footage (that probably couldn't be transferred to HD anyway). For a title like the Arkadin set to be in HD, it would probably have to be a mulitple-disc BD set, like the Blade Runner BD set, but with a higher SRP.

mteller wrote:I think the best strategy would be something that's due for a re-release anyway. For instance, Salo. Or for the love of God, Picnic at Hanging Rock.

For the love of God, it´s like releasing porn on HD. While you see the details better, there are some details you don´t want to see better...

davidhare wrote:

David, the other day I was reading that Warner is going back and redo all their progressive transfer because they're not good enough for Blu Ray 1080p? Why is that? So, if Warner's going back, is Criterion also on the same boat?

Gig didn't know that - can you give a source?

David, here's the piece I read from the Digital Bits:

One of the biggest issues they've had to deal with is something that all the Hollywood studios are discovering with their catalog titles: The previous 1080i film transfers they've done were fine for DVD release, but it turns out that they just aren't quite good enough to release on Blu-ray. So they're having to go back and do all-new 1080p transfers for Blu-ray release. That amounts to four or five years of work that needs to be redone in some cases, and that obviously takes time, because Warner - probably more than any other studio - is determined to do it right.

kevyip1 wrote:

arsonfilms wrote:Also bear in mind that despite the space available on a blu-ray disc, HD video takes up a lot of space. SD special features could be squeezed onto anything, but HD special features could not. Think about what a blu-ray Moral Tales, Brazil, Arkadin or Leopard would cost.

Some extras probably won't, or need not, be in HD - trailers, interviews, old film footage (that probably couldn't be transferred to HD anyway). For a title like the Arkadin set to be in HD, it would probably have to be a mulitple-disc BD set, like the Blade Runner BD set, but with a higher SRP.

In some cases, trailers and interviews and whatnot are mastered in HD to begin with, and for the titles that have alternate versions, the HD transfer is a must. I recognize what you're saying, but I'm not as optimistic as you are that Criterion will suddenly start adopting studio pricing structures and release styles just to fit into the new format. Look at a title like, say... The Virgin Spring. Short movie, minimal features, and it lists at $40. Knowing the cost difference between SD releases and BD releases, we're looking at $60 easily for a BD port of the existing disc. Would enough people buy that to justify its existence?

Now look at a title like... I don't know, Fanny and Alexander. You've got a couple of different versions, but even the shortest one is three hours. That fills a disc quickly. Then you've got the making-of in Hi Def, and before you know it you have a four disc blu-ray set with all the Bergman trailers squeezed onto the other discs. It won't be cheap.

I don't mean to be a killjoy, but wait for other indie labels to start doing this before Criterion does, especially the ones with studio involvement. Lionsgate and the Weinstein Company may be good indicators of how prestige titles fare in the hi-def market.

I thought I'd read just recently (and no I'm not even going to attempt to remember where) that Blu-Ray disks are actually running just a bit cheaper than HD-DVD disks to manufacture. (Course, now they're not )

But sure, start-up costs for anything aren't cheap (DVDs and CDs had the same issues), but as with most things of this ilk, they drop.

What you might have read, is that 25gig (single layer) Bluray discs are cheaper than 30gig (dual layer) HDDVD discs to manufacture.

Or, even, the comparison might have been between single-layer bluray and dual-layer, HD-DVD 'combo' disks (ie. 2x15gig layers on one side, 2x4.7 gig DVD layers on the other side) I can definitely see those being more expensive than a single-layer bluray (and it is a valid point. A lot of dual-layer HDDVDs get released as single-layer Blurays (example; Alexander Revisited was actually released as a 2-disk set on both Bluray and HDDVD (2 single layer disks on bluray)

I'd also mention combos as another of the HDDVD camps biggest mistakes. Despite owning almost 40 discs, I never bought a single combo (unless you count the HVE Calibration disk, were there was a clear advantage to having both NTSC and HDDVD)

btw, not sure how Picnic At Hanging Rock would hold up on HD. It looks sharp by SD standards, but I'm guessing the actual filmstock is (by filmstock standards) pretty soft in keeping with the mood of the film.

I've always thought, if Criterion ventures into HD, it would be a dual-format release of something new.
Last Emperor would have been perfect for that; release it sumultaneously in DVD and HD. I could even see a tiny justification for the 2:1 framing, in that people at this early stage are still mostly buying Bluray & HDDVD discs for demo material (and 'filling the screen' with the cinematographer's permission, makes a *tiny* bit of sense and... Aww, Heck, who am I kidding? The 2:1 reframing is a terrible idea on any format.

From criterionforum.com:

So I got the chance to talk to Criterion President Peter Becker last night at a screening of the Last Emperor (which by the way is an amazing restoration and transfer). Keeping you guys in mind I had to ask him a few questions...

First I asked him about if and when Criterion will be switching to Blu-Ray, and he said that as soon as it has reached a certain amount of market saturation it's inevitable. And that were not quite there but almost.

Then I asked for hints on upcoming releases that hadn't been announced and he mentioned Bottle Rocket (which I know everyone already knows) then he asked someone else from Criterion ( a Lady who's name I forget) And she said Patriotism is what she was working on, which I'm assuming is the Lost Yukio Mishima film. Then said SALO is being re-issued.

If you know me you know I live for this film, so I questioned him about it a bit further. Its Slated for an August/September Release date and will include a making of documentary with Pasolini interviews. As to wether or not it includes the Venice film festival version he didn't know offhand.

So I got the chance to talk to Criterion President Peter Becker last night at a screening of the Last Emperor ...

Then I asked for hints on upcoming releases that hadn't been announced and he mentioned Bottle Rocket (which I know everyone already knows) then he asked someone else from Criterion ( a Lady who's name I forget) And she said Patriotism is what she was working on, which I'm assuming is the Lost Yukio Mishima film. Then said SALO is being re-issued.

Patriotism is almost certainly a bonus feature on the Mishima DVD as it's only 30 minutes long. God, I am so fucking excited about this release! Too bad it sounds like it's not coming for a while if they're still working on this. Still, release of the year?

Patriotism is one of the best short stories I've ever read.

I don't suppose if anyone knows if there's been a film adaptation of Hemingway's The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber?

kaujot wrote:I don't suppose if anyone knows if there's been a film adaptation of Hemingway's The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber?

There's The Macomber Affair with Gregory Peck and Joan Bennett from 1947. Doesn't appear to ever have been released on video, though.

How does one "live" for Salo? I'm a staunch defender of the film and even I can only watch it about once a decade.

Like others in this thread, I've stopped buying SD stuff, including Criterions, now I have HD (an EP35 - sob) and a large backlog of unwatched disks. I'd have bought at least two '08 titles by now (Pierrot le Fou and Agnes Varda) but fear of double dipping is preventing me.

Even though I don't have a blu player, if Criterion started issuing on BD I'd be putting in my preorders and looking for a region A player to import. I'd even double dip on some of my existing Criterions - in fact, that's why I didn't pick up the reissues like Seven Samurai last year, because I wanted to only upgrade to HD.

Given that Criterion collectors are a niche, enthusiast lot, and likely to mostly have HD ready kit, I wonder if CC are seeing a drop in sales as a result? A Criterion blu-ray is pretty much the only thing that'd spur me onto buyng a BD player within the next couple of years...

Tamara Hellgren wrote:We’ve been doing all our mastering and restoration in HD for years, and as soon as we're ready to move forward with hi-def DVDs we won't be keeping it a secret. Please keep checking our website and newsletter, and feel free to write to Jon Mulvaney again if you have any other questions!

Sincerely,

Tamara

I'd say this sounds like something's gonna happen soon! Instead of the usual "we have no plans" or "we'd like to but...," this is practically a "yes."

denti alligator wrote:

Tamara Hellgren wrote:We’ve been doing all our mastering and restoration in HD for years, and as soon as we're ready to move forward with hi-def DVDs we won't be keeping it a secret. Please keep checking our website and newsletter, and feel free to write to Jon Mulvaney again if you have any other questions!

I'd say this sounds like something's gonna happen soon! Instead of the usual "we have no plans" or "we'd like to but...," this is practically a "yes."

I don't know about "soon", but it's seemingly coming at some point.

Can we edit the thread subject to "Criterion and Blu-Ray?"

Unless someone circulates a tough petition telling them to make sure and support both formats!

davidhare wrote:If they refused the next choice must be L'Armee des Ombres - a Studio Canal property which as you know wa announced by S-C last year as an HD titles but never eventuated.

I have this on HD-DVD at home, and it is awesome. It's available (at least it was..) from amazon.fr.

If Blue Underground are beginning to release Blu-rays, could Criterion be far behind? Isn't Blue Underground lower profile than Criterion?

If both of them were a tree, certainly Blue Underground would be the roots, as our beloved Criterion branches out into the horizon for Blu-ray and more of our money.

I don't know about that metaphor, dude, but, as the Death Monkey said in the other thread, Blue Underground is a smaller operation than Criterion, so all our questions about cost vs profit can now be tossed aside, no...?

denti alligator wrote:I don't know about that metaphor, dude, but, as the Death Monkey said in the other thread, Blue Underground is a smaller operation than Criterion, so all our questions about cost vs profit can now be tossed aside, no...?

well, if they actually make it.

Not only that, but just taking a glance at Blue Underground's offerings, I would argue their licensing/packaging costs alone are also probably substantially less than Criterion's.

I'd also assume the output would be like the early days when they first adopted DVD: one (maybe two if you're lucky) every couple of months. Though, on second thought, maybe it won't be that bad. If I recall, their laserdisc releases were usually pretty spaced as well and with DVD they were able to crank out much more.

cdnchris wrote:I'd also assume the output would be like the early days when they first adopted DVD: one (maybe two if you're lucky) every couple of months. Though, on second thought, maybe it won't be that bad. If I recall, their laserdisc releases were usually pretty spaced as well and with DVD they were able to crank out much more.

it's cheaper to make DVD's than LD's or BR's, therefore they can spend the saved money on more releases.

miless wrote:it's cheaper to make DVD's than LD's or BR's, therefore they can spend the saved money on more releases.

I wasn't sure on LD costs. So yeah, I guess we could expect a small output.

cdnchris wrote:

miless wrote:it's cheaper to make DVD's than LD's or BR's, therefore they can spend the saved money on more releases.

I wasn't sure on LD costs. So yeah, I guess we could expect a small output.

according to this site (I'm not sure about accuracy, but their estimate seems in line with other figures I've seen): http://www.ex.org/3.7/13-column_pov.html
LD's cost about $3-4 per side to manufacture (compared to less than $.30 for DVD's). and according to this site:

BR discs cost $2 each to manufacture.

davidhare wrote:I shoudln't say this but how much less did it cost to manufacture HD DVDs.

according to this website:

Blu-Ray: single-layer $1.99-1.49
HD-DVD: single-layer $1.69-1.35
HD-DVD: Dual-Layer $1.99-1.55 (all prices depend upon quantity)

so it looks like dual-layer HD-DVD discs are just about equal in manufacturing costs to the SL BR for the discs.