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It'd be good to get clarification soon because I'd also rather just buy the titles I'm interested individually (I already bought Ugetsu).

Lots of understandable griping, but 12 Mizoguchi films on BD is a pretty amazing feat for viewers, and must be some kind of new plateau in terms of home video's maturation. Between this and the "complete" Rohmer box and Herzog, I have little to complain about, except being poor.

There are 8 films in this box set, 4 of which are already available separately. The new 4 will not be available outside of the box set according to Kevin from Eureka, meaning people who already bought the first 4 last year will be forced to buy them a second time.

Bürgermeister wrote:

RossyG wrote:Yes, they're releasing four of them separately as two standalone titles (two films per disc, as before).

Incorrect. They've only announced them as part of a boxset.

They haven't announced individual releases for them.

My mistake. I saw the covers elsewhere on this site and presumed they were standalone releases.

EddieLarkin wrote:There are 8 films in this box set, 4 of which are already available separately. The new 4 will not be available outside of the box set according to Kevin from Eureka, meaning people who already bought the first 4 last year will be forced to buy them a second time.

Well that's a big fuck you to conscientious MoC collectors. They allowed the box to be bough separately when they did the later boxed DVD version. Why not this time?

EddieLarkin wrote:There are 8 films in this box set, 4 of which are already available separately. The new 4 will not be available outside of the box set according to Kevin from Eureka, meaning people who already bought the first 4 last year will be forced to buy them a second time.

Hence why agreed that "griping" was "understandable". In terms of film count, I meant in conjunction with the AE set, sorry for the confusion, and those who bought the original releases on good faith. I hope they allow appropriate upgrades to take place.

EDIT: Oops, sorry I didn't see about the lack of upgrade. Agreed, that's bollocks, so cancel my celebratory mood.

NABOB OF NOWHERE wrote:Well that's a big fuck you to conscientious MoC collectors. They allowed the box to be bough separately when they did the later boxed DVD version. Why not this time?

Unless their hands are tied by a contract, they can maybe be persuaded to change this decision.

The box set is described as "limited", so I imagine we'll still possibly get individual releases after it has sold out. Maybe. They are being quite vague about it all. I do hope I won't be in a situation where I feel I have to buy the box set because of its limited nature, only to find individual releases announced later. All I want is some confirmation of what will happen.

I'm in a good position because I never bought the initial blus, but this is pretty insulting to the fanbase. Strange, because I've always admired MoC for their attitude to consumers - from interaction with boards like this, to very good customer service when packages go missing.

On a more petty note, the box itself will be useless for me anyway since the new blus are separated from the old ones by about thirty spine numbers.

I would genuinely be disappointed if MoC choose not to release them separately. I already bought the first 2x2 upgrades, and I had, in the past, made the mistake to buy the 4 DVD releases separately, just before they announced the cheaper DVD boxset to be released.

I'm a huge MoC supporter, but there, buying 2nd copies of half the boxset, already having the DVDs, it would start to be a lot for my wallet...

Oh well. We'll see. Worst case, I will sell off my individual releases.

HJackson wrote:On a more petty note, the box itself will be useless for me anyway since the new blus are separated from the old ones by about thirty spine numbers.

I forgot about your dislike for box sets. The David Lean/Noel Coward box set would drive you crazy; they are ordered 604, 605, 606, 76, with no way of separating them!

I'll hold off with selling Ugetsu just yet, if only because it'd be the fourth purchase of that film if I went for the limited set and I can't justify that to myself when the only other film in the set I really want is Chikamatsu Monogatari. So either I bite the bullet and sell the BD copy I have and get the set or hope that once the limited run has sold out, that they do indeed issue the films individually, or hope that Criterion will get round to releasing Chikamatsu (which they never released on DVD so perhaps it'll be a dual format title in 2014/15). There is so much else out in November from Criterion, BFI, Arrow and from MoC themselves that I think I can live with having Chikamatsu as a DVD copy for a little longer still.

EddieLarkin wrote:

HJackson wrote:On a more petty note, the box itself will be useless for me anyway since the new blus are separated from the old ones by about thirty spine numbers.

I forgot about your dislike for box sets. The David Lean/Noel Coward box set would drive you crazy; they are ordered 604, 605, 606, 76, with no way of separating them!

My skin is crawling just reading that!

The prior BD releases of Ugetsu and Sansho were dual format, so I wonder how those two will be presented in this upcoming box, which is merely described as "a boxset that includes 1080p HD versions of 8 Mizoguchi masterpieces."

Also, I sure wish someone would release Madame Yuki.

swo17 wrote:Also, I sure wish someone would release Madame Yuki.

I wonder if this visually gorgeous film doesn't work almost as well without subtitles.

swo17 wrote:The prior BD releases of Ugetsu and Sansho were dual format, so I wonder how those two will be presented in this upcoming box, which is merely described as "a boxset that includes 1080p HD versions of 8 Mizoguchi masterpieces."

Also, I sure wish someone would release Madame Yuki.

I want to see 47 Ronin.

EddieLarkin wrote:

HJackson wrote:On a more petty note, the box itself will be useless for me anyway since the new blus are separated from the old ones by about thirty spine numbers.

I forgot about your dislike for box sets. The David Lean/Noel Coward box set would drive you crazy; they are ordered 604, 605, 606, 76, with no way of separating them!

I always loved the way that the Factory Records catalogue made it impossible for collectors to have everything. Unless of course they were able to take physical possession of the Haçienda nightclub (FAC51) and its cat (FAC191), but even then they'd struggle to collect ephemeral experiences like a birthday party (FAC86).

If I was ever involved with a label that had spine numbers, I'd probably do something similar, in much the same way that Rob Brydon recently introduced a guest on Would I Lie To You? with the words "He has compulsive-obsessive disorder, and I said it that way round deliberately, just to unnerve him".

+1 to the list of not very happy about this. I would have pre-ordered the four upgrades in a heartbeat, but won't be splashing out on the set. It doesn't help that we were told a short a while ago that getting these four films on blu-ray was 'very unlikely', so I'd be double dipping four blu-rays and also two recently purchased DVDs.

bdlover wrote:It doesn't help that we were told a short a while ago that getting these four films on blu-ray was 'very unlikely'

I thought the idea was more that these other four films were only going to come out if the first four sold well.

MichaelB wrote:I always loved the way that the Factory Records catalogue made it impossible for collectors to have everything. Unless of course they were able to take physical possession of the Haçienda nightclub (FAC51) and its cat (FAC191), but even then they'd struggle to collect ephemeral experiences like a birthday party (FAC86).

After spending a summer doing work experience at the Manchester Museum of Science and Industry back in 1999, which had acquired a lot of the Factory Records archive, I still think they missed a trick in not giving numbers to their paperwork. Who knows how much that summons for unpaid bills, police complaints about behaviour at the Haçienda or general correspondence with US recording studios and venues would be worth now if they each had a little FAC number on them? It would certainly have made my job of cataloguing them easier! (The person who actually worked there and had bought the archive threw three of us into the archive with a vague suggestion to sort it into some kind of order and then went on holiday for a fortnight, before coming back and saying "No! No! No! All wrong!" to us!)

I didn't see a cat anywhere though. Perhaps it was in one of those boxes at the back of the storeroom that I didn't get to in time?

swo17 wrote:

bdlover wrote:It doesn't help that we were told a short a while ago that getting these four films on blu-ray was 'very unlikely'

I thought the idea was more that these other four films were only going to come out if the first four sold well.

Sounds like MoC knows how to reward their loyal fans. "I know that we said we would release the second set of four films if you guys bought the first set. However, we you need to buy the first set again to get the second set!" It is a pretty big slap in the face. Considering the poor customer service I have gotten from them recently, I doubt I will pick up any more of their releases even though I really would like to own them, especially these Mizoguchi releases.

zeroman987 wrote:Sounds like MoC knows how to reward their loyal fans. "I know that we said we would release the second set of four films if you guys bought the first set. However, we you need to buy the first set again to get the second set!" It is a pretty big slap in the face.

Not only that, but it's actually quite opposite to what they have done so far. It would be the first time they would make a release with exclusive movies paired with movies you might already bought, thus forcing re-buying the same releases (and in this case, it's 2 releases, not 1).
Due to this weird move, I'm still waiting for an official public confirmation of this exclusivity.

zeroman987 wrote:Considering the poor customer service I have gotten from them recently,

What happened ? I don't want to sound like a fanboy but I've never had any better CS than from MoC through Kevin. And God knows I've made quite stupid things, like having a few releases falling on the ground while moving stuff around and breaking the cases (Kevin sent me for free just enough of them to replace the broken ones), and ordering twice Le pont du Nord and Tabu (Kevin refunded me and I'll give my extra copy to Glasgow Uni media-center).

zeroman987 wrote:I doubt I will pick up any more of their releases even though I really would like to own them, especially these Mizoguchi releases.

Seems to me a bit extreme. I mean, Criterion still has Madadayo as an exclusivity from their AK100, which is now OOP. You wouldn't stop buying Criterion becauses of this ?
I don't know, I guess I'll never understand this kind of reaction. If their other releases are good, I wouldn't restrain myself because of these ones.

tenia wrote:

zeroman987 wrote:I doubt I will pick up any more of their releases even though I really would like to own them, especially these Mizoguchi releases.

Seems to me a bit extreme. I mean, Criterion still has Madadayo as an exclusivity from their AK100, which is now OOP. You wouldn't stop buying Criterion becauses of this ?
I don't know, I guess I'll never understand this kind of reaction. If their other releases are good, I wouldn't restrain myself because of these ones.

Nobody ever actually follows through on these hollow internet threats. It's a new form of (incredibly lame) 21st century theatre.

tenia wrote:

zeroman987 wrote:Considering the poor customer service I have gotten from them recently,

What happened ? I don't want to sound like a fanboy but I've never had any better CS than from MoC through Kevin. And God knows I've made quite stupid things, like having a few releases falling on the ground while moving stuff around and breaking the cases (Kevin sent me for free just enough of them to replace the broken ones), and ordering twice Le pont du Nord and Tabu (Kevin refunded me and I'll give my extra copy to Glasgow Uni media-center).

Typically they have great customer service. However, I had an issue and I have sent about 4 emails since June without any response. No "I am sorry we can't help you." Just silence. I have been a customer since 2010, typically preordering at least one, if not all the releases each month. I like supporting them because they do something that I believe in; they put out movies that would never see a blu-ray release without their attention. However, this experience really soured me on them.

zedz wrote: Nobody ever actually follows through on these hollow internet threats. It's a new form of (incredibly lame) 21st century theatre.

First off, it wasn't a "threat." I said I doubt I would pick it up because of the pricing structure and because of a negative customer service experience. I didn't say that if they did not change the pricing structure, I would boycott MoC. I also didn't say that if they didn't email me back, I would stop buying their stuff. I said that because of their business practices, they probably have lost my business. Big difference.

Second of all, the only way a consumer can be an agent of change is to vote with their wallet. If MoC/Eureka wants to throw away three years of good will by not answering my email and by charging me for 12 movies so I can own 8, that is up to them. However, if they choose to do so, I can vote with my wallet and just stop buying their stuff. I have done it before, and I am sure it will happen again. I have a long memory, I am stubborn, and I don't like feeling ripped off. For example, I haven't had cable since it took two hours to cancel Comcast in 2010. I can afford cable, and my wife really wants it, but I refuse to support Comcast.

Q.E.D.