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I don't really know how Shout thinks they'll top the Criterion releases, especially Godzilla. I am curious however as to which titles from the franchise they could possibly have the rights to.

criterion10 wrote:Jesus, it's like all the shit is hitting the fan at once for Criterion. First, the brown Blu-Rays, then the Erasehead error, now this... What next?

Well, I guess the delay of Tootsie is ultimately what followed next (while I haven't seen the film yet, it seems as though some might consider this to be a good thing!).

Movie-Brat wrote:I don't really know how Shout thinks they'll top the Criterion releases, especially Godzilla. I am curious however as to which titles from the franchise they could possibly have the rights to.

It can only be the 8 Classic Media put out: Godzilla, Godzilla: King of the Monsters, Godzilla Raids Again, Mothra vs. Godzilla, Ghidorah, The Three Headed Monster, Invasion of Astro Monster, All Monsters Attack, Terror of Mechagodzilla. Which is a very good thing, as CM had no plans to ever put them out on Blu.

If Shout! does no better than to duplicate the CM box on blu, I'd buy it- it was already a pretty great set, with both American and Japanese cuts of the movies wherever possible, commentaries (including one from Kalat) and fun little miscellany. Criterion really had to go above and beyond to make their release of Godzilla definitive, but I don't know that Shout! needs to bother.

I wanted to be safe rather than sorry, and I had been eyeballing the Cassavetes films for a while. I pulled the trigger just in case their is a remote chance that these would be going out of print. I still kick myself for the times I picked up the Third Man at B&N, and put it back, thinking I would pick it up down the road.

EddieLarkin wrote:It can only be the 8 Classic Media put out: Godzilla, Godzilla: King of the Monsters, Godzilla Raids Again, Mothra vs. Godzilla, Ghidorah, The Three Headed Monster, Invasion of Astro Monster, All Monsters Attack, Terror of Mechagodzilla. Which is a very good thing, as CM had no plans to ever put them out on Blu.

Oh. Of course. There's the Raymond Burr version of the original film. I can imagine Shout putting those on the Scream Factory brand so that's good news at least. Though that being said,

matrixschmatrix wrote:If Shout! does no better than to duplicate the CM box on blu, I'd buy it- it was already a pretty great set, with both American and Japanese cuts of the movies wherever possible, commentaries (including one from Kalat) and fun little miscellany. Criterion really had to go above and beyond to make their release of Godzilla definitive, but I don't know that Shout! needs to bother.

My thoughts exactly. Like, what's the point now? Criterion pretty much provided the Blu-Ray release of the original film to end all Blu-Ray copies of the film.

Are we sure that Westchester owns the definitive rights to all of these titles that have been mentioned above? I believe Westchester represented the rights for a large number of estates - thus Shout! theoretically doesn't own everything. I say all of this, because this is the page with all of the current Westchester licensed titles. Although I think everyone should still be concerned about the other titles mentioned which are not on that page, there is a possibility that they are safe from Shouts! sticky fingers.

For example: The Cassavetes set doesn't make a single mention of Westchester. I know Westchester lists these films on their website, but unlike Stagecoach and the others on the above linked page, Cassavetes only lists a Jumer Productions, thus I think these will ultimately remain with Criterion (which is good, since I'd probably die laughing at the thought of Shout! attempting to release Cassavetes).

The other titles mentioned, but not on that page are below:

Godzilla - Toho / Classic Media
Hoop Dreams - New Line Entertainment
Hopscotch -Studio Canal
The Ruling Class - Keep Films, Ltd.
The Shooting / Ride in the Whirlwind -Janus Films

Granted, the above are more likely to have switched to Westchester Films (like Classic Media licensed from Westchester), so I'd say they should be picked up (especially Godzilla).

Edit

Found this on Julian Schlossberg's wikipedia page:

In 2006 Schlossberg sold Castle Hill Productions and started two new production and film distribution companies, Jumer Productions Inc. and Westchester Films Inc.

So I suppose it depends on whether Shout purchased only Westchester or both Westchest + Jumer Productions. I'd say you should all own Cassavetes, but I'm betting the set is not going out of print.

Also, worst-case scenario, the BFI BD reissues of those five Cassavetes films are a perfectly valid alternative to Criterion's Blu-Rays. I actually prefer that set, which is why I haven't picked up Criterion's.

Toho is working on new 4K transfers of its entire Godzilla catalog, so if Shout! waits for them they could possibly best the Criterion disc in the image department.

Minkin wrote: I'd say you should all own Cassavetes, but I'm betting the set is not going out of print.

I have not seen any of the Cassavetes films yet, but after reading some of the reviews and discussions here, it seemed like a safe bet for a blind buy. I had been keeping a set in my cart on Amazon saved for later, this was just what tipped me over the edge!

Even if the Cassavetes aren't going out of print, I will be looking forward to seeing them.

It is a shame about The Ruling Class and Hopscotch though. I love Ronald Neame, and Matthau is a great leading man. The Ruling Class was a title I let go hoping for a Blu upgrade soon, as it is just such a twisted, warped and darkly funny film.

EddieLarkin wrote:Toho is working on new 4K transfers of its entire Godzilla catalog, so if Shout! waits for them they could possibly best the Criterion disc in the image department.

They are?

Well, maybe. On further reading it looks like they've done the original but only a minute of each sequel in 4K for a TV documentary. I imagine there are plans to do the full sequels in 4K as well, but it's speculation at this point.

Shout may be content with letting the Criterion titles stay licensed out, as they aren't exactly their type of releases, while focusing on releasing other parts of the catalog themselves that more closely matches their consumer base.

EddieLarkin wrote:Well, maybe. On further reading it looks like they've done the original but only a minute of each sequel in 4K for a TV documentary. I imagine there are plans to do the full sequels in 4K as well, but it's speculation at this point.

Hmm, true enough. Though suddenly, I'm eager to see the original Godzilla in 4k resolution.

Saw this comment on the bluray.com news page:

Nailwraps wrote:Unfortunately, this deal is for broadcast/non-physical media only. So for those who hoping for new Blu/DVD releases of the films in this library, sorry to give your hopes up.

Perhaps we were being overly hasty and none of the Westchester films are in any danger of going OOP? They make it sound like the deal pertains only to Shout's digital ventures. So perhaps Breaker Morant will disappear from Hulu, but a blu would still be forthcoming?

Oh. That explains things.

Minkin wrote:Perhaps we were being overly hasty?

Impossible.

captveg wrote:Shout may be content with letting the Criterion titles stay licensed out, as they aren't exactly their type of releases,

Not sure I agree with this, after all who would've thought Shout would release a huge Werner Herzog set.

Just posted by Tooze:
"I hope this email finds you well. Thank you for writing in regarding a discoloration and playability problem with one or more of your Criterion discs. We are aware of this issue, which appears to affect a number of titles pressed four or five years ago at a pressing plant that we no longer use, and we are currently working on a solution. Please be assured that we are dedicated to your satisfaction and will be replacing defective discs. As soon as we have a system in place to handle exchanges efficiently, we will send out a link with instructions on how to receive replacement discs. Thank you for your patience and understanding while we work through this issue.
>
> All the best and thanks for supporting Criterion!
>
> Jon Mulvaney"

captveg wrote:Shout may be content with letting the Criterion titles stay licensed out, as they aren't exactly their type of releases, while focusing on releasing other parts of the catalog themselves that more closely matches their consumer base.

I seriously hope they got them so they could release the two Godzilla episodes of MST3K.

richast2 wrote:

captveg wrote:Shout may be content with letting the Criterion titles stay licensed out, as they aren't exactly their type of releases, while focusing on releasing other parts of the catalog themselves that more closely matches their consumer base.

I seriously hope they got them so they could release the two Godzilla episodes of MST3K.

Setting aside how asinine it is to hope that a great Blu-ray goes OOP so you can get an MST3K release, Toho would never let them release the MST3K eps.

dwk wrote:

richast2 wrote:

captveg wrote:Shout may be content with letting the Criterion titles stay licensed out, as they aren't exactly their type of releases, while focusing on releasing other parts of the catalog themselves that more closely matches their consumer base.

I seriously hope they got them so they could release the two Godzilla episodes of MST3K.

Setting aside how asinine it is to hope that a great Blu-ray goes OOP so you can get an MST3K release, Toho would never let them release the MST3K eps.

Actually, if Shout! has the rights to publish the original Godzilla films on BD/DVD, then they should also have the right to release the MST3K episodes; Rhino only had the broadcasting rights, I believe, hence the debacle with Volume 10.

Yes, but Toho can and probably would make it a part of any licensing contract to not allow the release of the MST3K episodes.

dwk wrote:

richast2 wrote:

captveg wrote:Shout may be content with letting the Criterion titles stay licensed out, as they aren't exactly their type of releases, while focusing on releasing other parts of the catalog themselves that more closely matches their consumer base.

I seriously hope they got them so they could release the two Godzilla episodes of MST3K.

Setting aside how asinine it is to hope that a great Blu-ray goes OOP so you can get an MST3K release, Toho would never let them release the MST3K eps.

I quoted captveg to make it clear that I'm hoping the Criterion doesn't go OOP.

richast2 wrote: I quoted captveg to make it clear that I'm hoping the Criterion doesn't go OOP.

Sorry if I misunderstood you, I've been really sick this week and my brain has only been at 50%.

About the Godzilla films, according to Keith Aiken, Classic Media (or what is left of it) still retains the home video rights. They only licensed the broadcast and streaming rights to Westchester.