criterionforum.org

Kirkinson wrote:Turn it in the other direction, though. Why do you even own a DVD player? The first time I saw 2 or 3 Things it was on a washed-out VHS copy with terrible sound and a VCR that couldn't track properly. Just because that experience was also amazing doesn't mean I should just brush aside Criterion's DVD and say it's not worth it.

No no, I'm not brushing aside the DVD and saying it's not worth it. The DVD offers so many conveniences/advantages over the old system.

aox wrote:Honestly, I have never seen a thread/forum in my life that was so self-contradictory and done with a straight face. There isn't even any cognitive dissonance in sight. At least squirm when making these nonsensical arguments. Any lover of film (a visual and sound medium) trying to argue against seeing and hearing something they love in the best possible manner is ridiculous. Why go to a movie theater? Why even watch a DVD? Is VHS too good for too? Obviously, there is stuff that hasn't even seen release on DVD, everyone gets that. I don't know why people cower to that 'talking point'. No one is making that argument. No one is saying "don't watch ****" because it isn't on Blu-Ray.

You misunderstand me.

MichaelB wrote:

Caged Horse wrote:If picture quality is the be all and end all, surely you should move to Japan and watch one of the 4000p 'Super Hi-Vision' monitors already going on sale there?

Nah, just install a 35mm projector, and insist only on screening prints struck freshly from the original interneg. It's expensive, granted, but if you want perfection you have to pay for it.

Agreed. I would love to be able to do that, but I am not in a position to.

However, I also don't plan to proactively tear down the format (4K, or 35mm), or make a hubristic claim that it doesn't matter/make a difference, and stubbornly say, "Blu Ray is good enough for me".

> good enough for me

Aox --

You seem to not realize that for people without HD TVs, Blu-Ray offers NO immediate advantages at all.

Moreover, your BR advocacy seems too strident -- even to some people (like me) who HAVE already adopted BR.

What methods do UK people tend to use to import Region A Blu-rays? Amazon Marketplace UK seems really expensive in comparison to the prices the Blu-rays are listed for on the US site and how much DVDs tend to cost to import on the marketplace. Other than Criterions (which I'll wait for the next sale for) I'm particularly interested in The Counterfeiters, Il Divo and The Lives of Others - especially Il Divo.

Use http://r1.find-dvd.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; to find out the price from amazon.com + postage to uk. As long as its under £18 you're safe from the customs.

Il Divo works out to about £14.16 delivered to the UK from amazon.com

Movietyme has Lives Of Others and The Counterfeiters for £16.99 each delivered. Movietyme is also customs free.

Thanks. I'll get some over soon then.

MichaelB wrote:

Blood Pie wrote:The real dilemma, especially to a lot of people who post here, is what will happen to DVD. Will it be a shared existence with Blu Ray or will it eventually (even if it takes years) be phased out as costs continue to come down.

I predict shared existence for years. The simple fact is that there are vast numbers of films that either don't benefit from HD at all or where materials of sufficient quality for a viable HD transfer simply aren't available. And of course the vast majority of pre-2000s TV will see no visual benefit from an upgrade. So the situation is very different from VHS to DVD, when DVD offered a measurable visual/aural improvement in the overwhelming majority of cases, quite aside from the convenience factor.

Thats funny you mention that because I was thinking about how well Blu did in both titles and player sold this holiday season and then related it to manufacturing costs coming down. If we add another 2-3 years to the equation and Blu keeps gaining steam, (which, again, at this point its inevitable) it might make sense to put out stuff that would only be worthy of DVD on Blu simply because the cost will likely be close to producing DVDs (like how 480p source anime is upconverted on Blu currently) and retailers do not like a 2 format sales floor. Just a thought thats based on the premise that Blu becomes the majority sales leader over DVD.

Everyone must also keep in mind that moving from DVD to Blu-ray is not the same as moving from VHS to DVD. It necessitates the purchase of an HDTV, which in turn might require an upgrade to your cable/satellite service. The speed at which Blu-ray adoption continues surprises me, but the process of adoption is not quite the same as the shift to DVD which only required the purchase of a player.

Matt wrote:Everyone must also keep in mind that moving from DVD to Blu-ray is not the same as moving from VHS to DVD. It necessitates the purchase of an HDTV, which in turn might require an upgrade to your cable/satellite service. The speed at which Blu-ray adoption continues surprises me, but the process of adoption is not quite the same as the shift to DVD which only required the purchase of a player.

I guess I see it differently and I think that view is a bit too negative. While what you say is somewhat true from a logistical standpoint, the switch to HDTV's is inevitable and has nothing to do with the rise of Blu-Ray. TVs die everyday, and within the next ten years your only option is going to be to buy an HDTV. I don't feel one can pin the HDTV completely to Blu Ray. In fact, I would say the emergence of Blu-Ray is a byproduct of something much larger; namely, the entire country's switching to digital and eventually buying HDTV's. The switch isn't centered around the format.

I would say on a positive side, that we can't compare VCR/DVD to the DVD/Blu switch because this format switch isn't causing a single person to cease using their previous format (DVD) or repurchase their entire video library once again. I can't think of a more consumer-friendly format shift. It truly is unprecedented.

aox wrote:I would say on a positive side, that we can't compare VCR/DVD to the DVD/Blu switch because this format switch isn't causing a single person to cease using their previous format (DVD) or repurchase their entire video library once again. I can't think of a more consumer-friendly format shift. It truly is unprecedented.

You are familiar with HDCP, right? And how that renders a lot of people's fairly new hardware useless when it come to watching Blu-ray? In my house we have two TVs and at least four computers capable of processing Blu-ray - yet because of HDCP only the TV in the lounge can watch it via HDMI/DVI. If there is only one thing Blu-ray isn't then that is consumer friendly. The whole HD "switchover" has been a farce to say the least.

Matt wrote:Everyone must also keep in mind that moving from DVD to Blu-ray is not the same as moving from VHS to DVD. It necessitates the purchase of an HDTV, which in turn might require an upgrade to your cable/satellite service. The speed at which Blu-ray adoption continues surprises me, but the process of adoption is not quite the same as the shift to DVD which only required the purchase of a player.

Kind of an old argument. Walk into any electronics store for the past two years and its 90% HDTV. Its inevitable that people who buy movies on any format will eventually have an HDTV of some sort simply because tube TVs are falling by the wayside.

And why does it surprise you? In contrast to your opinion it honestly surprises me how many people on this forum seem offended the format even exists. In my mind I always liked Criterion because they put out (usually) quality transfers and respect and utilize directors and DPs for many of the titles they release. Blu Ray blows DVD away in this regard. 24fps, higher resolution, yadda yadda.

TMDaines wrote:

aox wrote:I would say on a positive side, that we can't compare VCR/DVD to the DVD/Blu switch because this format switch isn't causing a single person to cease using their previous format (DVD) or repurchase their entire video library once again. I can't think of a more consumer-friendly format shift. It truly is unprecedented.

You are familiar with HDCP, right? And how that renders a lot of people's fairly new hardware useless when it come to watching Blu-ray? In my house we have two TVs and at least four computers capable of processing Blu-ray - yet because of HDCP only the TV in the lounge can watch it via HDMI/DVI. If there is only one thing Blu-ray isn't then that is consumer friendly. The whole HD "switchover" has been a farce to say the least.

I'm somewhat in the same boat with this here computer (current Mac tower, slightly older monitor), it won't let me play any iTunes 1080p TV content, I have to watch the standard def (think it's the video card). Haven't even tried a movie download. And of course no real blu-ray capability for Macs.

What I was going to write, though, is that component output should still work for a while, if you pick a blu-ray player that offers it as output. Most/all (HD)TVs should still have that as an input option, at least any decent one that came out within the last decade. And then there's always that composite video connection for even older/cheaper sets, HD or otherwise. My points being: blu-ray is not just tied to HDCP, and you don't actually need an HDTV to be able to use the player. You should at least be able to benefit from a better picture regardless, due to better encoding of blu-ray content (less compression noise), and you don't really need to have an HDCP capable TV at this point.

(Monitors, much as I'd like to see some decent 1080p content on my computer screen out of curiosity, count me among those that cannot stand watching much of anything sitting in front of my computer for more than a few minutes. TV only for me.)

Blood Pie wrote:Kind of an old argument. Walk into any electronics store for the past two years and its 90% HDTV.

I don't see that the age of the argument and its validity have any correlation. Not everyone has bought a new TV in the last two years or is interested in (or capable of) doing so in the near future. I know a big movie buff who just bought his first DVD player in 2009.

Blood Pie wrote:And why does it surprise you? In contrast to your opinion it honestly surprises me how many people on this forum seem offended the format even exists.

This forum, as we must always take pains to point out, is not the real world. It is a small subset of avid movie watchers/collectors. My surprise is that Blu-ray has taken off as a consumer format (which was no surprise for DVD, given the great advantages it offers over VHS). I thought it might remain a niche format for a while longer.

fdm wrote:What I was going to write, though, is that component output should still work for a while, if you pick a blu-ray player that offers it as output. Most/all (HD)TVs should still have that as an input option, at least any decent one that came out within the last decade. And then there's always that composite video connection for even older/cheaper sets, HD or otherwise. My points being: blu-ray is not just tied to HDCP, and you don't actually need an HDTV to be able to use the player. You should at least be able to benefit from a better picture regardless, due to better encoding of blu-ray content (less compression noise), and you don't really need to have an HDCP capable TV at this point.

Yeah. Unfortunately the Limit (Momitsu) player I picked up from HMV only has HDMI and composite output. My non-HDCP computer monitor only has DVI and VGA so any work arounds to hook those up to one another are either expensive or come at a great loss in quality (feel free to prove me wrong!). That means no Blu-rays at uni for me.

Why don't you buy yourself a PC blu-ray drive?

Blood Pie wrote:In my mind I always liked Criterion because they put out (usually) quality transfers and respect and utilize directors and DPs for many of the titles they release. Blu Ray blows DVD away in this regard. 24fps, higher resolution, yadda yadda.

Bluray (in general) blows Criterion away in this (bolded) regard? Really?

And, I've read some disappointing Bluray reviews at this site. "Why was the picture lacking in this or that?"

Of course I'm going to buy HD tv next time, and Blurays......I won't have a choice.....but I'm still not convinced that my film experiences will be greatly enhanced by that format/equipment. "Perfection" is so over-rated, hahahaha.....

perkizitore wrote:Why don't you buy yourself a PC blu-ray drive?

Like I said: HDCP.

#-o

Noiretirc wrote:

Blood Pie wrote:In my mind I always liked Criterion because they put out (usually) quality transfers and respect and utilize directors and DPs for many of the titles they release. Blu Ray blows DVD away in this regard. 24fps, higher resolution, yadda yadda.

Bluray (in general) blows Criterion away in this (bolded) regard? Really?

And, I've read some disappointing Bluray reviews at this site. "Why was the picture lacking in this or that?"

Of course I'm going to buy HD tv next time, and Blurays......I won't have a choice.....but I'm still not convinced that my film experiences will be greatly enhanced by that format/equipment. "Perfection" is so over-rated, hahahaha.....

I never used the word perfection. And just like you read some disappointing Blu Ray reviews on this site you likely have also read some disappointing DVD reviews. Should I deduce that DVD can't enhance your experience of watching films either and that you should have stuck with VHS because bad transfers on DVD exist? No format is immune to bad transfers and shouldn;t be used a yardstick to make sweeping generalizations.

According to BluRay.Com E1 Entertainment has acquired the North American rights to " La Dolce Vita", "Shoeshine" and "La Terra Trema", and Blurays will be released later in the year.

tojoed wrote:According to BluRay.Com E1 Entertainment has acquired the North American rights to " La Dolce Vita", "Shoeshine" and "La Terra Trema", and Blurays will be released later in the year.

Ossessione and Bellissima too.

Just out of interest what kind of trackrecord do E1 Entertainment have?

TMDaines wrote:

tojoed wrote:According to BluRay.Com E1 Entertainment has acquired the North American rights to " La Dolce Vita", "Shoeshine" and "La Terra Trema", and Blurays will be released later in the year.

Ossessione and Bellissima too.

Just out of interest what kind of trackrecord do E1 Entertainment have?

Prom Wars
Rad Girls

just to name two..

others

There's a good chance I won't be ditching my RHV's La Terra Trema and Ossessione and MoC's Bellissima just yet then.

aox wrote:

TMDaines wrote:

tojoed wrote:According to BluRay.Com E1 Entertainment has acquired the North American rights to " La Dolce Vita", "Shoeshine" and "La Terra Trema", and Blurays will be released later in the year.

Ossessione and Bellissima too.

Just out of interest what kind of trackrecord do E1 Entertainment have?

Prom Wars
Rad Girls

just to name two..

others

...and?
What does the fact that they distributed Prom Wars have to do with how good their Shoeshine will be? For all I know, their edition of Rad Girls is beautiful and completely stacked (puns intended), boding well for their move into higher-brow cinema.

fiddlesticks wrote:

aox wrote:

TMDaines wrote: Ossessione and Bellissima too.

Just out of interest what kind of trackrecord do E1 Entertainment have?

Prom Wars
Rad Girls

just to name two..

others

...and?
What does the fact that they distributed Prom Wars have to do with how good their Shoeshine will be? For all I know, their edition of Rad Girls is beautiful and completely stacked (puns intended), boding well for their move into higher-brow cinema.

I never commented on the films I presented because, not only have I ever seen these editions, I have never even seen these specific films. I don't know why you assumed the worst here; why not assume the other way that I was presenting these as beacons of how a DVD should be handled? Don't jump to conclusions: my post was agnostic. Someone asked a question, and I was trying to be helpful hoping that other members might have their memories refreshed and be able to comment on the editions of these films.