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EddieLarkin wrote:

Twilight Time wrote:Heads-up from SAE - fewer than 500 copies remaining of the FRIGHT NIGHT: 30th Anniversary Edition - these are moving very quickly - you have been warned! Happy New Year, everyone!

Going unusually fast, despite the 5000 copies and 1 copy per person limit that has been in place for some time now. The Blob took a lot longer than this despite it being its first and only pressing.

I can very well see people buying 1 to 3 copies (not difficult setting 3 different accounts or getting help by some understanding friends) due to how fast it sold-out last time and they will be selling these now just like 2 years ago.

Devil in a Blue Dress confirmed on Facebook.

You would think, after selling 8,000 copies within a month (1st time) and two days (2nd) - that Sony would realize there's actually a market for some of their horror titles if they released it themselves (unless all 5,000 copies went to scalpers) + Sony could probably use the money more than TT at this point (Great, 5k copies sold to fund TT to release 500 titles a month now).

Anyway,

Guess Who's Coming to Dinner is apparently coming to TT.

Sony truly has given up if they can't sell that

criterion10 wrote:My god, that cover for Love and Death is disgusting. And to think that the old MGM cover was perfectly fine...

It is based on the original poster with a bit of sepia tint.

Minkin wrote:You would think, after selling 8,000 copies within a month (1st time) and two days (2nd) - that Sony would realize there's actually a market for some of their horror titles if they released it themselves (unless all 5,000 copies went to scalpers) + Sony could probably use the money more than TT at this point (Great, 5k copies sold to fund TT to release 500 titles a month now).

Anyway,

Guess Who's Coming to Dinner is apparently coming to TT.

To be fair, it sold out because it was limited. If Sony released it for $10, it'd take years to shift.

Yes, the frenzy that gets whipped up at places like Blu-ray.com is the main reason why this has gone so fast, rather than it truly being more popular than suspected. If Sony had put this out via the traditional way in 2011 with a $19.99 MSRP, I highly doubt they'd have sold 8,000 copies by now.

I've warmed to TT - I know they cost more, but I accept that they have a buisness plan that works for them (I hope!).

But Christ, I'd wish they fire Kimmel...

EddieLarkin wrote:Yes, the frenzy that gets whipped up at places like Blu-ray.com is the main reason why this has gone so fast, rather than it truly being more popular than suspected. If Sony had put this out via the traditional way in 2011 with a $19.99 MSRP, I highly doubt they'd have sold 8,000 copies by now.

Indeed. Which is why you'll inevitably be seeing more and more expensive limited editions - it's one of the few viable ways of keeping physical media alive and breaking even. (This business isn't really about turning big profits any more.)

At the moment, we're in this ridiculous situation where most BDs are drastically underpriced (sorry to play devil's advocate, but they really are), which creates the impression that discs that wouldn't have been considered unreasonably priced a few years ago are now thought to be beyond the pale.

My problem with TT is that as a UK resident, I have to pay a lot more to get hold of the discs, but I can't blame the company for that: they've only cleared the US rights and have no obligation at all to cater for the likes of me. Most TT discs costs US residents the equivalent of £19.99, and if I could get them for that little (relative to the £35-50 they actually cost me once shipping and possible Customs surcharges are factored in), I'd undoubtedly own a lot more.

I welcome it from UK labels if it means getting more obscure stuff like Stray Cat Rock, and it helps me prioritise my purchases. It can be a nightmare with the US labels though, the recent stuff from Code Red, Scorpion and Kino have been so difficult to get that I haven't even bothered with the couple I genuinely want (Vinegar Syndrome in comparison make it incredibly easy, and really seem to appreciate their international fans).

It certainly isn't cheap for UK folk to get their hands on TT product, though I'll repeat that if customs were an issue with SAE I wouldn't own a fraction of the TT titles I do. They are very consistent with how they declare their international packages shipped via their basic delivery option: $5 per title. So as long as you keep your order to 4 titles or less (and the exchange rate stays above 1.333, which I'm sure it will as I've never known it be that low during my entire life, though you can check here every month), you won't get hit.

Bit dodgy, but when DiabolikDVD, Vinegar Syndrome, Flicker Alley, Mondo Vision et al are all doing the same thing I don't judge. If you save up 4 titles before ordering to save the maximum amount on delivery ($10 for the first title(!) but only $2.50 for each subsequent one), then each title works out to £23, certainly a lot more than you'd ever want to pay for a new UK release, but not prohibitively expensive. Certainly worth it for the few Sony gems we know are not going to see a release from Sony UK/EU (Bonjour Tristesse, All the King's Men, Bell Book and Candle, Two Rode Together, The Man from Laramie, Born Yesterday et al).

MichaelB wrote:

EddieLarkin wrote:Yes, the frenzy that gets whipped up at places like Blu-ray.com is the main reason why this has gone so fast, rather than it truly being more popular than suspected. If Sony had put this out via the traditional way in 2011 with a $19.99 MSRP, I highly doubt they'd have sold 8,000 copies by now.

Indeed. Which is why you'll inevitably be seeing more and more expensive limited editions - it's one of the few viable ways of keeping physical media alive and breaking even. (This business isn't really about turning big profits any more.)

But the scary thing about this (and this latest Twilight Time kerfuffle is a classic example) is that if a large number of people are buying these releases as 'collectibles' with an eye to later turning a profit, sooner or later that bubble is going to burst, and possibly take the rest of the market with it.

If the number of people who actually want to own a BluRay of Fright Night for its own sake is significantly less than 8,000, at some point there will be several thousand 'investment copies' sloshing around the second hand market that nobody wants at the limited edition price.

I'm not sure scalpers are making up that much of the number. After all, the title was limited to 1 per customer/address at the 2,500 mark. Rather, this may be a case of a lot of people buying the release not because they actually want it that bad, but because they don't want to later regret missing out. I for instance am one of the people who bought this new version (I missed out on the first), but how much do I actually like Fright Night? Not much. I've had the DVD for about 5 years and watched it once. I like it enough that I haven't sold it, and I'd rather that a rewatch be on Blu-ray, so I'm buying the film now because this is likely my last opportunity. I'm one of those 8,000. But at the same time, if the release had got a traditional release in 2011 (and at a cheaper price at that!), would I own it on Blu-ray? Probably not. Where is the incentive to priortise? I would be aware of its existence and would stick it on a list, but I wouldn't actually bother buying it until I got the urge to see the film again (there's always something that's going to purchasing precedence over a film like Fright Night), or there was an indication it was going OOP, which in both cases might be never.

EddieLarkin wrote:I'm buying the film now because this is likely my last opportunity.

If Sony is willing to relicense Fright Night to TT a second time, they will put it out again in 3 years because it's like printing money.

Eddie, since you are in the UK, why not just get the EU/AU versions put out by Sony?

MichaelB wrote:

EddieLarkin wrote:Yes, the frenzy that gets whipped up at places like Blu-ray.com is the main reason why this has gone so fast, rather than it truly being more popular than suspected. If Sony had put this out via the traditional way in 2011 with a $19.99 MSRP, I highly doubt they'd have sold 8,000 copies by now.

Indeed. Which is why you'll inevitably be seeing more and more expensive limited editions - it's one of the few viable ways of keeping physical media alive and breaking even. (This business isn't really about turning big profits any more.)

At the moment, we're in this ridiculous situation where most BDs are drastically underpriced (sorry to play devil's advocate, but they really are), which creates the impression that discs that wouldn't have been considered unreasonably priced a few years ago are now thought to be beyond the pale.

My problem with TT is that as a UK resident, I have to pay a lot more to get hold of the discs, but I can't blame the company for that: they've only cleared the US rights and have no obligation at all to cater for the likes of me. Most TT discs costs US residents the equivalent of £19.99, and if I could get them for that little (relative to the £35-50 they actually cost me once shipping and possible Customs surcharges are factored in), I'd undoubtedly own a lot more.

It would be one thing if TT actually delivered limited editions of any real worth and depth. Their releases are completely average barebones discs (for the most part) and only have any perceived value due to their limited number and piracy laws. If you're willing to go through the back channels or acquire foreign releases (of, at times, dubious legality), then TT have virtually nothing to offer.

I think comparing yourself, on behalf of Arrow, with TT does no favours as your releases have consistent depth and clear effort invested in them, and as a result they are great value. For what it's worth, I no longer buy Arrow releases for more than £8 as your prices come down so quickly. I rarely pre-order, and the one time I did with Arrow, Il conformista was bought for £12 and less than three months later it was £6 or £7. If you're disposable income is limited, it pays massively to wait.

I really don't mind pre-ordering releases knowing that I actually support an independent label, but I am really rattled that many Arrow releases end up on Amazon's or Zavvi multi-title offers in less than 6 months time from their original release! I still pre-order what I consider important from Arrow, but I am much more satisfied with the service Eureka offers (I usually order from the direct since they are usually cheaper from most retailers and their releases do not end up in the internet bargain bins!)

nitin wrote:Eddie, since you are in the UK, why not just get the EU/AU versions put out by Sony?

I'll admit I was conveniently ignoring that issue in my last post hoping someone wouldn't notice. Whilst they're a lot cheaper, they aren't completely equivalent discs. The new TT comes with the original 2.0 track in lossless which is a big plus for me, whilst the EU/AU editions all have lossy 5.1 (the TT has it also, in lossless). In addition, the TT is coming with some exclusive features. I don't know if either of those things will be worth the extra £12 the TT disc is costing me, but when it's going as fast it does, I don't have a lot of time to think and consider. Which is definitely the worst part of the model, but as I've said before, worst case these things are a good investment. My biggest TT regret was The Fury, but I still managed to sell it for just under £20 to some crazy person in the UK, despite the Arrow version already being in shops at that point!

It is nice to know that, as an American at least, TT releases are much easier to resell- it's the reason I will probably buy the TT of Man Hunt instead of the Sidonis release, despite them winding up at roughly the same price (and the French one looking much nicer.) But I certainly don't admire and wish to support the company the way I do Arrow, the BFI, MoC, Criterion, or even Cohen- it feels like a bit of a chore, as I know that I'm not going to be seeing a lot of love for the product (although I should point out that they've been exceptionally good for some of their Peckinpah releases.)

TMDaines wrote:Their releases are completely average barebones discs (for the most part) and only have any perceived value due to their limited number and piracy laws. If you're willing to go through the back channels or acquire foreign releases (of, at times, dubious legality), then TT have virtually nothing to offer.

I don't think it's true that they're mostly barebones releases--they typically seem to carry over whatever extras were on previous R1 editions, add an audio track with the score isolated, and have lately been adding quite a few commentaries.

Also, having little to offer in comparison to illegal alternatives is not a defensible argument.

swo17 wrote:Also, having little to offer in comparison to illegal alternatives is not a defensible argument.

My point was not to encourage people to pirate their release instead, it was highlighting that you hardly losing out by grabbing a rip online over buying many TT releases, but you're making a huge saving. If you do the same of a Criterion or MoC or Arrow title, you are missing out on a lot of cool stuff and the releases are very reasonably priced anyway. There's also a massive opportunity cost with TT. Why buy one of theirs over two CC? I'm sure for many of us our wishlist is growing exponentially longer and more quickly than our buying capacity.

People can pay lip service and state that piracy is indefensible, but virtually everyone has been at it to some extent with music and/or film over the years, whether it be copying and ripping tracks that you are not entitled to or downloading films through the back channels, regardless of whether they are available commercially or not. Labels are ultimately up against people choosing to pirate too. It's something else that they have to compete against. There's no point burying your head in the sand or having an omertà around it.

I truly believe that the download industry is in for a rude awakening if it believes that people are going to pay substantial subscriptions for a limited selection (in abysmal quality) when the back channels are calling, or, alternatively, pay the same amount that they do now for a Blu-ray, only for an HD download instead. I pay for Mubi and Prime as both offer a specific niche at good value, but the chances of me paying £8-12 for an individual HD download is zilch. I pay for Spotify too, as it is incredible value for access to such a large library of music. If only there was an equivalent for film! They'll be enough people paying for Netflix and the like to keep them going, but the amount pirated is only going to grow.

Feel free to move this discussion, if we continue, as we are drifting away from TT-specific stuff.

You mean, like, forwarding it to the proper authorities?

I never said that piracy was indefensible, only your criticism of TT for bothering to put their releases on discs and then charge money for them.

TMDaines wrote:People can pay lip service and state that piracy is indefensible, but virtually everyone has been at it to some extent with music and/or film over the years, whether it be copying and ripping tracks that you are not entitled to or downloading films through the back channels, regardless of whether they are available commercially or not.

The "regardless" glosses over some important distinctions. Downloading, say, "Tokyo Olympiad" because it's long been commercially unavailable and then supporting a legit release by buying it when it is available again is hardly the same thing as downloading a new release via P2P just to avoid paying for it.

Labels are ultimately up against people choosing to pirate too. It's something else that they have to compete against. There's no point burying your head in the sand or having an omertà around it.

How can labels compete against non-invested parties making the content available for free? If they lower their prices a bit, that still doesn't make them competitive against free availability. And if TT adds more special features, those could be pirated just like the main feature, no?

Gregory wrote:And if TT adds more special features, those could be pirated just like the main feature, no?

They could, but the point is that it looks like having a higher value for money, so people might bite the bullet thinking it's money well spent and a release worth supporting. Whereas, just putting a movie on a disc looks like a cheap thing to do.

That's what some labels have done : pushing the releases in a premium way, where there is lots of added value. And, of course, if it's not on-disc, all the better, because it will not easily be found online. See for instance what Wild Side is doing in France : expensive releases (30€), huge books (100 pages mininum, currently it has settled at 204 pages), minimal on-disc extras.

On the opposite, you have Gaumont who have halved their prices for their "Découverte" (Discovery) collection down to 10€. They have a cheap standard menu, 90% of the time only extras ported from previous DVD editions but regular recent 2K restorations.

Which can make people think : in between, there looks like TT have the high premium prices but the editorial content of the Découverte collection.

Gregory wrote:How can labels compete against non-invested parties making the content available for free? If they lower their prices a bit, that still doesn't make them competitive against free availability. And if TT adds more special features, those could be pirated just like the main feature, no?

Labels compete against it all the time and succeed, and have done for years. People like owning a physical copy of the media they own and like to support the companies who restore and show love to the medium that they have an interest in. People love to rip open the shrinkwrap, flick through the accompanying booklet and display their releases with gorgeous cover art. Labels compete against licensed streaming sites too, where they are essentially up against the same beast - a relatively very cheap, no thrills, barebones experience.

Special features can be pirated too, but the majority of stuff taken off the net is just a ripped film. I think a lot of the connoisseurs, the people who appreciate special features, place a lot of extra value in a lengthy booklet and special features.