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Re: Joker (Todd Phillips, 2019)
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:50 pm
by mfunk9786
Re: Joker (Todd Phillips, 2019)
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:55 pm
by domino harvey
the Guardian wrote:Joaquin Phoenix, you are well known for your lenient stance on crime, but suppose for a second that your house was ransacked by thugs, your family was tied up in the basement with socks in their mouths, you try to open the door but there's too much blood on the knob....
Re: Joker (Todd Phillips, 2019)
Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:18 pm
by quim_font
Indiewire Commentator wrote : Everything in my life leading up to watching “Joker” has inspired me to become violent and bordeline insane. It doesn’t need movies for that. Human beings are nasty by nature and without the leviathan of the modern state blood would be flowing in rivers. On the other hand the modern state has often failed to protect you, just look
at Mexico. If a guy dresses up as Joker and starts to shoot around again, it won’t tell you much about movies, but more about how in-sane America is now.
Maybe “Joker” is overrated, but states and people are even more overrated
Uhhh, everything okay there, indiewire commentator?
Re: Joker (Todd Phillips, 2019)
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:22 am
by ford
quim_font wrote: Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:44 pm
Have to wonder what the next "impart current social issue onto existing IP" film is going to be: Captain America going though a contemptuous divorce? Wonder Woman running to be the first woman U.S. president? Spider-man drowning under student debt?
Great stuff—I’m gonna pitch all of it.
Re: Joker (Todd Phillips, 2019)
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:25 pm
by mfunk9786
Re: Joker (Todd Phillips, 2019)
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:37 pm
by domino harvey
This is ridiculous— they probably fell for a 4Chan post or something. Why would incels shoot up a theatre showing a movie that they allegedly will love?
Re: Joker (Todd Phillips, 2019)
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:42 pm
by quim_font
I mean, hate to even play into this, but some superfans can be possessive and look down upon others as not being “deserving.” But this is something that happens in any sort of fandom, not particularly new.
And I think we all know, already, that this movie will have its superfans that will define it to some extent, for better or worse.
Re: Joker (Todd Phillips, 2019)
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:25 pm
by colinr0380
I'm just imagining that somewhere Jodie Foster is kicking herself for not dressing as Harley Quinn at some point during The Brave One.
Re: Joker (Todd Phillips, 2019)
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:26 pm
by Big Ben
domino harvey wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:37 pm
This is ridiculous— they probably fell for a 4Chan post or something. Why would incels shoot up a theatre showing a movie that they allegedly will love?
It should be noted that this was not an officially circulated "This is going to happen" sort of deal. It's entirely precautionary based on online posting through
articles and comments. The FBI has had zero reports of possible attacks and is not aware of any advocacy for it. The article also goes on to say that the Aurora shootings Joker connection was debunked.
I do believe that the concern is legitimate though as this is a very real issue but I cannot help being cynical when sites like Indiewire continue to make clickbait headlines about other serious issues and then only seem to care about this one particular issue now.
Re: Joker (Todd Phillips, 2019)
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:45 pm
by Nasir007
Hate to be that person but I am appalled at the overreaction to this. I keep saying the same thing over and over again - it is just a movie.
There have been immensely more potent provocations in art. Movies far more disturbing or inciting.
Is this what Bill Maher decries - that is a representation of the hysteria-prone devastated shattered fragile nervous-breakdown-having hyperventilating generation who will fall to pieces at the sight of a provocative movie.
I think the infantilization of millenials/gen z continues. You would think great nihilistic literature from Dostoevsky or Nietzsche or Camus or whoever would have the capacity for greater harm - I certainly found them extremely provocative. But joker? of all things a mass produced commercial mainstream entertainment. All this hullabaloo over that?
Re: Joker (Todd Phillips, 2019)
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:58 pm
by quim_font
Camus explicitly stated, in The Rebel and in others, that his entire life’s work was devoted to countering nihilism, not embracing it.
Re: Joker (Todd Phillips, 2019)
Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:01 am
by Glowingwabbit
quim_font wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:58 pm
Camus explicitly stated, in
The Rebel and in others, that his entire life’s work was devoted to countering nihilism, not embracing it.
Nietzsche wasn't a Nihilist either.
Re: Joker (Todd Phillips, 2019)
Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:49 am
by Nasir007
Maybe I really am that dumb and read it all wrong lol. The point is some of those works are very provocative and lead you to question (and perhaps reject) basic concepts of civilization and society. You would think people would fond find those works more troubling than a superhero movie.
Re: Joker (Todd Phillips, 2019)
Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:57 am
by Glowingwabbit
Nasir007 wrote: Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:49 am
Maybe I really am that dumb and read it all wrong lol. The point is some of those works are very provocative and lead you to question (and perhaps reject) basic concepts of civilization and society. You would think people would fond find those works more troubling than a superhero movie.
Sadly a lot more people are going to see movies like this than to actual read or even learn the names of the writers you mentioned
Re: Joker (Todd Phillips, 2019)
Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:44 am
by spectre
It does make one wonder what the current world would make of stuff like André Breton's remark that "the simplest surrealist act consists of running down the street, gun in hand, and firing blindly into the crowd". I guess that's not such a surreal concept in the US nowadays.
Re: Joker (Todd Phillips, 2019)
Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:23 am
by mfunk9786
This thread has turned me into a nihilist
Re: Joker (Todd Phillips, 2019)
Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:31 am
by domino harvey
All this nonsense makes me feel like Lisa Jakub’s liberal parents in Matinee, tricked into seeing a garbage movie because they’re advocating for its right to exist and be shown
EDIT: Now there’s an idea: how bout we just rerelease Matinee to theatres instead?
Re: Joker (Todd Phillips, 2019)
Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:35 am
by mfunk9786
What a perfect time to open a new Joker movie. Think of it - millions of people looking over their shoulder waiting for the other shoe to drop, never knowing if their next malted milk ball might be their last.
Re: Joker (Todd Phillips, 2019)
Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:40 am
by domino harvey
Nah, President Pence will already be sworn in by the time this opens
Re: Joker (Todd Phillips, 2019)
Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:19 am
by colinr0380
I guess we don't need to go as far back as all that - wasn't Catcher In The Rye about the same kind of moral panic of a book that might connect with the 'wrong sort' of people, or the masses in general? Presumably a lot of that came about less from the content of the work but for concerns as to how it was 'going' to get used in the 'wrong hands' too?
Re: Joker (Todd Phillips, 2019)
Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:12 pm
by Nasir007
colinr0380 wrote: Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:19 am
I guess we don't need to go as far back as all that - wasn't Catcher In The Rye about the same kind of moral panic of a book that might connect with the 'wrong sort' of people, or the masses in general? Presumably a lot of that came about less from the content of the work but for concerns as to how it was 'going' to get used in the 'wrong hands' too?
For sure. I read it in a single night in one sitting with no breaks (which is how I think it is best read) and I was I think 19 and even then I thought I read it too late. I should have read it when I was 15 or so and the it would have been even more potent with even greater capacity for mischief. Not to say it ruined me but I certainly found the worldview expressed fascinating. It did lead me to ordering scotch and soda for 6 months straight after that.
I think we all have friends who are let us say less iron-willed or a bit all over the place mentally or not of very strong convictions or a mental constitution. I have such a friend and worried about him reading say Karamazov because I thought the extent of moral relativism expressed by some characters might have a seductive or corrosive effect on him. I wouldn't worry about anybody seeing the joker.
Re: Joker (Todd Phillips, 2019)
Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:19 pm
by aox
domino harvey wrote: Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:55 pm
the Guardian wrote:Joaquin Phoenix, you are well known for your lenient stance on crime, but suppose for a second that your house was ransacked by thugs, your family was tied up in the basement with socks in their mouths, you try to open the door but there's too much blood on the knob....
What question do you have specifically about the budget?
Re: Joker (Todd Phillips, 2019)
Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:24 pm
by aox
Nasir007 wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:45 pm
Hate to be that person but I am appalled at the overreaction to this. I keep saying the same thing over and over again - it is just a movie.
There have been immensely more potent provocations in art. Movies far more disturbing or inciting.
Didn't a bunch of fascist assholes burn down the theater of/at the premier of Renoir's
The Rules of the Game in 1939? Or, is that just folklore?
Re: Joker (Todd Phillips, 2019)
Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:56 pm
by mfunk9786
Nasir007 wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:45 pm
Hate to be that person but I am appalled at the overreaction to this. I keep saying the same thing over and over again - it is just a movie.
Nasir007 wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:49 pm
With Tarantino his violence is gleeful. Taratino thinks it is cool and badass. And he shows it to us that way. His point IS entertainment. Therein lies the difference. The audience does not burst into cheers and whoops in Cache when the kid beheads the chicken. In this film they do. There should be atleast some, the barest responsibility when showing violence. Especially from a respected film-maker. Tarantino wants none of that. He wants to show us what he enjoys. And what he enjoys on the evidence of this film is ugly and revolting.
Nasir007, how would you square these two sentiments?
Re: Joker (Todd Phillips, 2019)
Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:19 pm
by Gregory
aox wrote: Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:24 pm
Nasir007 wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:45 pm
Hate to be that person but I am appalled at the overreaction to this. I keep saying the same thing over and over again - it is just a movie.
There have been immensely more potent provocations in art. Movies far more disturbing or inciting.
Didn't a bunch of fascist assholes burn down the theater of/at the premier of Renoir's
The Rules of the Game in 1939? Or, is that just folklore?
I have no idea whether they were fascists, but yes, when the film premiered at two Paris theaters, there were reports, at the
more upscale of the two, of people smashing their seats in protest and throwing burning newspaper around the theater. This seems to support what Renoir wrote in his memoir that the audience "recognized themselves" in the film. And "people who commit suicide do not care to do it in front of witnesses."