Eclipse Discussion and Random Speculation

[Ashirg]

Criterion still owns eclipsedvd.com domain, but there's nothing there...

[zedz]

Note to certain posters: this thread is already verging on useless. Let's not threaten its existence by discussing, of all things, new Criterion announcements in it.

I think we'll need some serious policing (or at least guidelines) to keep this on track. Random speculation about individual titles seems to me to belong in the established Criterion thread, since any given title could end up being a Criterion title, or an Eclipse title, or neither, and 'major' or 'minor' calls are probably very much in the eye of the beholder.

What I think belongs here is speculation about specific 'series', since that's what's apparently going to define Eclipse. As they go along, I'm sure we'll get a better sense of what does and doesn't belong here. At the moment, maybe we can define it as potential collections of related films that for some plausible reason (e.g. minor or marginal status, presumed absence of appropriate extras, redundancy of extras) wouldn't attract the Criterion box set treatment. For instance, I'd consider the Rebel Samurai box an Eclipse release avant la lettre.

[zedz]

Now that we've got a Random Spec thread, I should relocate this:

Actually, a Les Blank series on Eclipse would be superb: Les Blank in New Orleans; The Blues According to Les Blank. Yes, please.

[HerrSchreck]

Five ho hum Bergmans-- maybe we will actually get five Gremillions after all. Perfect box--

MALDONE
PETITE LISE
GUEULE DAMOUR
REMORQUES
LUMIERE D'ETE

[Tommaso]

Sounds reasonable. Just like five Bernards. And remember, there are five Eisenstein silents (if you count "Que Viva Mexico", that is). Although, if they come via Eclipse, they probably won't be much better than the available editions.

[HerrSchreck]

Are we getting FIVE Bernards? That would be freaking glorious-- one dreams about getting a really restored CHESS PLAYER (phew! masterpieceville.. historical drama almost on a par with, though of a totally different-- less literary & moving-- species than, HERR ARNES PENGAR) with a modern hi-def transfer vs the old Photplay TV resto from at least 13 or 14 yrs ago (may even be 1990).

I thought it was just THE WOODEN CROSS & LE MIZ...?

[Tommaso]

I thought it was just THE WOODEN CROSS & LE MIZ...?

Yes, of course. I was just dreaming because you mentioned five Gremillons. And because the Criterion blog spoke of 3-5 films for each filmmaker. And, as you say, a new "Chess player" would be much desired. But remember that they said there won't be much restoration work for the Eclipse films in any case. No problem with that for the Bergmans, because these Tartan discs (as far as I've seen them) are all from very good prints, and I would assume Eclipse will use the same or similar prints. But to make a significantly better "Chess player" would require full restoration work (incl. restoring the French intertitles), and even if Eclipse went for the film itself, I doubt that they would do that. That's why I still am not wholly convinced of the Eclipse line idea, but we will have to wait and see how good these releases actually turn out to be. And if we get Gremillon and Bernard in the first place, regardless how many, I'd be fine anyway.

[HerrSchreck]

I don't agree. The film's been suitably restored to my taste (though there's room for improvement I'm sure). Not much damage at all. All they need to do to make this modest boy happy is give it a simple hi-def transfer from the film elements as they exist (that's all I asked for above, not a restoration). That's a television transfer (complete with analoguey peak picture & fringing) on the Milestone from UK Channel Four.

EDIT: klunk. I see where I saw you thinking I said restored. Because I used the word restored. Duh.. it's late here for me. I meant just "really seeing the fruits of the restoration via hi-def" (because the filmic materials don't look all that bad behind the analoguey Milestone/UK transfer.)

[fred]

Are we getting FIVE Bernards?

Doesn't it seem more likely that the Bernards we know about would be packaged with the two Gremillons and maybe La vie est à nous in some kind of French box? Weren't they all mentioned at the same time in Cahiers? I would of course love to see a 5 Gremillon box (or even just a dedicated 3 disc set), but I suspect that kind of treatment is going to be reserved (alas) for better known directors.

[What A Disgrace]

Bring on a Jiri Menzel box. While I would probably expect the likes of Second Run to tap into this director's work, Criterion has already released the amazing Closely Watched Trains, and they haven't touched him since. And I don't care about supplements, I want to see these movies.

I would also think that Eclipse would be a fine way to release Kurosawa's earliest films (the ones that aren't already in the works, mind you)...starting with Kajiro Yamamoto's Horse (Kurosawa co-directed), and continuing with The Most Beatiful, Those Who Make Tomorrow, No Regrets For My Youth, and One Wonderful Sunday.

[Narshty]

I'd love to see Escape at Dawn (Akatsuki no dasso), an earlier version of Story of a Prostitute adapted from the same novel and scripted by Akira Kurosawa. It sounds intriguing to say the least.

[jbeall]

Bring on a Jiri Menzel box. While I would probably expect the likes of Second Run to tap into this director's work, Criterion has already released the amazing Closely Watched Trains, and they haven't touched him since. And I don't care about supplements, I want to see these movies.

Amen to that! Menzel (and the Czech New Wave in general) is badly underrepresented in the American dvd market. One of my favorite Menzel films, My Sweet Little Village, isn't even available on dvd.

Also, earlier this year Menzel directed an adaptation of Bohumil Hrabal's novel I Served the King of England. Hrabal wrote the novella Closely Watched Trains, so I'm looking forward to another Menzel adaptation of Hrabal. I know criterion doesn't *usually* put out contemporary films, but I seriously doubt any Menzel films will be released in this country by anybody other than Facets. <shudders>

I'm still hoping that any Menzel films get the criterion treatment, rather than an Eclipse release. The Prague Film School is one of the best in Europe. Kundera taught there for a time (Forman was his student), and more recently, Emir Kusturica and Jan Hrebejk studied there. Criterion could speak to these more contemporary directors, esp. the latter, about Menzel's influence on their own work.

Also, the former Czechoslovakia has such an interesting history--even when compared to other Central European nations--that a supplement about the nation's politics/history would be highly informative. I showed a Czech movie to my class recently, and much of the film's impact was lost on them because they didn't know the historical context.

[HerrSchreck]

I don't know that anything is "likely" yet since we have only one firm example to go on, which is one director boxed up according to his own, and the fact that Eclipse is dedicated to lesser known directors / works not warranting the extras / digital resto's. Just the semi-inherent "mission statement" makes the possibility of a Grem box entirely possible. Unpopular stuff given barebones release. WHo in gods name outside of a couple hundred knows-- in this country-- who Ray Bernard is furchrissakes???? If he gets a two minimum, Grem should get every film he's ever made!

Beyond that, wrangling over speculation is like debating the deep throating skills of The Porno Star Not Yet Born.

Time will tell.

[solaris72]

It's now looking like Subversive Cinema will be releasing Massacre at Central High. Norm Hill posted this on the Subversive blog:
[quote="Subversive Cinema DVD News"]We're not quite ready to tell you about our next exciting acquisition just yet. But we can say there's a lot of people out there who have us in mind when they talk about this classic…before our little company even existed! Just read:

“[It makes] fascinating use of a popular genre (teen slasher flick) to support a subversive message.â€

[Lino]

If Criterion are cutting down budgets with the Eclipse line, why not invite people to participate on their upcoming DVDs? I bet there are thousands out there who would do it for free! I mean, what fledgling critic would turn down the chance to record an audio commentary on a Bergman film for free, right? And I also bet that there are many, many young people with a camera in hand just waiting for a chance to show their talents and wouldn't start doing interviews for DVDs be a good thing?

Well, I think this is a good idea. Any takers? Who wants to email Criterion first?

[domino harvey]

that's what blogs are for.

[Jeff]

If Criterion are cutting down budgets with the Eclipse line, why not invite people to participate on their upcoming DVDs? I bet there are thousands out there who would do it for free! I mean, what fledgling critic would turn down the chance to record an audio commentary on a Bergman film for free, right?

Recording an audio commentary is an expensive proposition. Even if the participants did it for free, the recording and production of the track don't come cheap.

[Ishmael]

If Criterion are cutting down budgets with the Eclipse line, why not invite people to participate on their upcoming DVDs? I bet there are thousands out there who would do it for free! I mean, what fledgling critic would turn down the chance to record an audio commentary on a Bergman film for free, right?

In addition to Jeff's excellent point, I would also ask if you've ever sifted through resumes, screened applicants, evaluated work samples, or fielded calls and emails from interested candidates? With all the "fledgling critics" who would be trying to get in on this, Criterion would have to create several extra full time jobs just to deal with them.

[Jun-Dai]

It is a very intriguing idea, but because of the resume problem, it would have to have it's own built-in filtering mechanism. That said, there's no reason that you would have to go through the normal production values. Director commentaries are harder, because you usually have someone to interview them for the commentary, but critic commentaries are easier. If you actually had a decent candidate, you could simply send her a DVD and have her return the commentary track.

That said, it wouldn't be too hard to have a filtering mechanism like this: send us a 10-minute sample of your commentary track. Certainly if you were going to make a commentary track you would have had to have seen the film already and be quite familiar with the subject, so it should be possible for you to rent a VHS copy or whatever and record 10 minutes of blathering. Given the difficulty, you wouldn't have too many applicants (so you wouldn't need so many full-time employees to handle it; maybe just a part-time intern), and it wouldn't be too hard to tell if you had a viable commentator on your hands.

[Tribe]

I'd be interested only if the commentary was an unexpurgated, stream-of-consciosness rant by Herr Shrek.

Tribe

[Derek Estes]

If Criterion are cutting down budgets with the Eclipse line, why not invite people to participate on their upcoming DVDs?

I really don't think it is a matter of cutting down budgets, as it is making available films that would not other wise be released. Take the early Bergman for example, though they will be interesting to see, most of the people who have seen them seem to agree that these are really minor Berman. I really expect that the films being released under Eclipse will not be masterpieces, but interesting lesser known titles. Which would not warrant the supplements that a full blown Criterion treatment often include.

[Der Müde Tod]

I mean, what fledgling critic would turn down the chance to record an audio commentary on a Bergman film for free, right?

I would even pay (say 5 bucks) for an improvised audio commentary by some of the forum members. Maybe somebody could sneak a microphone into (say) Schreck's home and record what he is saying while watching a movie? We could then burn CDs and play them together with the DVD. In contrast to dubbing, there is no necessity for accurate synching.

[Andre Jurieu]

10 minutes x 250 applications would be about an entire work week of just listening to the audition commentaries, nevermind evaluating them. I would hate to be the intern assigned to doing this task considering all the effort involved. Sooner or later most of these critics would just be spouting off the same crap and it would start to become difficult to differentiate between such material, especially since the entire process is a bit dry. I think we're also underestimating the amount of nutcases that would actually take the time to make a 10 minutes demo-commentary just because their obsessed, and as much as I appreciate eccentricity on occasion, I doubt I would feel right subjecting an intern to such circumstances. Plus, what happens when they pick some critic and they turn out to be horrible and/or the reception of the commentary by customers is poor? Does the company blame the assigned intern/employee because we dedicate an entire thread to insulting the commentary track and claim we could have done better ourselves. Seems like a great deal of work for very little chance of a reward, other than to stroke some pompous jerk's ego. If the company really wanted to do something like this, I would just surf a few of the better small-time on-line publications and just select a few critics to have a discussion.

[zedz]

[relocated from the Forthcoming Eclipse list - a.k.a. the Other Random Speculation thread]

While we're speculating about Gremillon, how about a series of series (over time, of course): Silents, 1930s and 1940s.

We know that Maldone is a masterpiece, but his other late silents used to be just as highly thought of. Or maybe he can feature in an Impressionist series or two.

There are two runaway 1930s masterpieces (Lise and Gueule), M. Victor has something of a reputation, and Dainah looks magnificent too.

And there are at least four essential 1940s films (Remorques, Le Ciel est a vous, Lumiere d'ete and Pattes Blanches - I wouldn't want to see any of those overlooked).

[tryavna]

I would even pay (say 5 bucks) for an improvised audio commentary by some of the forum members. Maybe somebody could sneak a microphone into (say) Schreck's home and record what he is saying while watching a movie?

Surely a commentary from Herr Schreck would be worth the full top-tier Criterion price!