criterionforum.org

sorry, couldnt read through this thread, just put my two cents in based on the first page mostly.

but anyways...

jon wrote: sorry, couldnt read through this thread, just put my two cents in based on the first page mostly.

but anyways...

I'm only messin' with ya.

DeathDealer wrote:I dont think ADC is online anymore.

Apparently Nick gave Satan a call who then turned up and whisked them off into the depths of hell.
At this very moment (and for every other moment for all eternity) they are most likely being stabbed in the eyes with red hot pokers.

Moral of the story? Don't file share. And if you really feel that you do have a moral/legal right/obligation to file share don't do it with MOC stuff.

Napoleon wrote:

DeathDealer wrote:I dont think ADC is online anymore.

Apparently Satan a call who then turned up and whisked them off into the depths of hell.
At this very moment (and for every other moment for all eternity) they are most likely being stabbed in the eyes with red hot pokers.

Moral of the story? Don't file share. And if you really feel that you do have a moral/legal right/obligation to file share don't do it with MOC stuff.

ADC is very much online.

Moral of the story? Do file share. ESPECIALLY MOC stuff.

And then look forward to a happy eternal afterlife up in heaven swapping tales with God of your Robin Hood a-like mortal existence.

Those Swedes are at it again.

Swedish file-sharing website The Pirate Bay is planning to buy its own nation in an attempt to circumvent international copyright laws.

GringoTex wrote:Those Swedes are at it again.

Swedish file-sharing website The Pirate Bay is planning to buy its own nation in an attempt to circumvent international copyright laws.

Perhaps then somebody really can declare war on them -- literally.

People stealing MoC presentations are scum.

That company has made me very happy, bringing out in particular The Fantastic Planet, The Holy Mountain, Assasination, and Nightmare Alley in beautiful editions, they are doing important work and maintaining the world's cultural heritage. Anyone undermining their work is a fascist. MoC do what they do for the love of film. If you love film, support them in the excellent job they do.

There is no label more discerning or hard working with the disks that they bring out. I've not seen a bad movie off of one of their discs yet. The staff there care, when I purchased a faulty disc of The Idiot, peerpee sorted me out with a replacement straight away. It's a film company with integrity you don't get questionable classics released, there's no Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou, no The Rock, no Monsters and Madmen, no Equinox, no The Blob. Any disk they release is done without compromise, you get a cool booklet, cool extras, pristine transfers, cool artwork. For God's sake just look at their Kwaidan release. 183 minute version 70-page booklet, great interviews. If you think it's alright to steal their stuff, sort yourself out.

stepps wrote:Anyone undermining their work is a fascist.

I applaud your enthusiasm, but do you even know what fascism is?

stepps wrote:Anyone undermining their work is a fascist.

Wouldn't they be, rather, anarchists? I'm not sure any political label like this is appropriate...

I must say, I find it interesting that one of Uncle Hulot's points was dismissed so glibly. While I don't argue that downloading a rip of a DVD is legally or ethically acceptable, copyright and distribution rights are being invoked only when it helps the distributor making the argument.

Almost certainly, MoC's acquisition of the rights for the films that they distribute are only for those territories that are in "Region 2," otherwise their discs would likely be released with other region coding and their films would not be released in other regions by other legitimate DVD authoring houses. Those that argue that those in the US who want to see an MoC DVD in the states should buy it in the international marketplace ignore the fact that doing so violates copyright/distribution rights in much the same way as downloading by impacting the ability of the proper owner of the rights to profit from the film. (If I, as a resident of the US, buy MoC's DVD of Grey Gardens, it impacts Criterion's ability to profit from their DVD of the same film.) This is true even if there is no DVD available in the US, no? There is still, generally, a legitimate Region 1 rights holder.

While it may not be a criminal offense to distribute films in this way, I imagine that Region 1 rights holders have the same civil, legal recourse that is available them when their copyright is otherwise infringed. (And just for the sake of clarity, I do recognize that this argument ignores added content a company completed restorations. This, however, does not invalidate its points about distribution rights.)

neal wrote:Almost certainly, MoC's acquisition of the rights for the films that they distribute are only for those territories that are in "Region 2," otherwise their discs would likely be released with other region coding and their films would not be released in other regions by other legitimate DVD authoring houses.

Not true, but I know what you're getting at. MoC licence films for the UK, not for "Region 2" per se (because, in a wonderful piece of planning, Japan is also "region 2").

Region coding is an invention of the DVD Forum (an umbrella organisation of hardware and software mega-corporations). Many licensors insist region coding is used by licencees (such as MoC), but some others don't care (probably because they know it's pointless). MoC is against region coding.

neal wrote:Those that argue that those in the US who want to see an MoC DVD in the states should buy it in the international marketplace ignore the fact that doing so violates copyright/distribution rights in much the same way as downloading by impacting the ability of the proper owner of the rights to profit from the film.

You're completely wrong. The act of buying any DVD from anywhere in the world does not violate any copyright/distribution rights. Please be clear about this, only the act of a licencee directly selling outside of their territory would violate distribution rights. Once a licencee has sold product to a distributor, that distributor can do what they like with the product.

neal wrote:(If I, as a resident of the US, buy MoC's DVD of Grey Gardens, it impacts Criterion's ability to profit from their DVD of the same film.) This is true even if there is no DVD available in the US, no? There is still, generally, a legitimate Region 1 rights holder.

That is correct, but that is also your right as a citizen -- to choose what you want. Nothing wrong with it, nothing illegal, nothing violated, nothing wrong with importing anything.

The beauty of this system is that it works both ways.

peerpee wrote:You're completely wrong. The act of buying any DVD from anywhere in the world does not violate any copyright/distribution rights.

This, I knew, and I certainly didn't mean to use language that made it sound as though the violation was buying one copy. It was more addressed at selling them.

But your argument about the licensee not being responsible for the acts of the distributor also makes sense because you sell only to distributors within the UK, though I wonder if a case could be made that you are indirectly at fault/in violation of your agreements for continuing to supply distributors who you know sell outside of the UK. Or does the language of the contracts specifically outline the violations to be the direct selling/shipping that you outlined above?

Additionally it should be noted that Section 602 of US copyright law does restrict the importing of media for which there is a US rights holder.

Importation into the United States, without the authority of the owner of copyright under this title, of copies or phonorecords of a work that have been acquired outside the United States is an infringement of the exclusive right to distribute copies or phonorecords under section 106, actionable under section 501. This subsection does not apply to--

(1) .... (Governmental/School Use)
(2) importation, for the private use of the importer and not for distribution, by any person with respect to no more than one copy or phonorecord of any one work at any one time, or by any person arriving from outside the United States with respect to copies or phonorecords forming part of such person's personal baggage; or
(3) ... (Libraries/Archiving)

"Copies" are, incidentally, define thusly:

material objects, other than phonorecords, in which a work is fixed by any method now known or later developed, and from which the work can be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated, either directly or with the aid of a machine or device. The term "copies" includes the material object, other than a phonorecord, in which the work is first fixed.

Thus, the importing of any more than one copy is illegal, as is the importing of copies for the purposes of renting them.

neal wrote:Thus, the importing of any more than one copy is illegal, as is the importing of copies for the purposes of renting them.

So as long as I purchase only one copy of MOC's Diary of a Lost Girl, no laws are being broken.

GringoTex wrote:

neal wrote:Thus, the importing of any more than one copy is illegal, as is the importing of copies for the purposes of renting them.

So as long as I purchase only one copy of MOC's Diary of a Lost Girl, no laws are being broken.

Assuming you're in the US, yes. I can't speak for elsewhere. And, while I'm not familiar with that particular disc, I'd encourage you to do so if you're at all "on the fence" about it. I've very much enjoyed some of their other releases and can speak to their general quality.

Edit: I see that the disc it isn't out yet. I didn't think I'd remembered reading about it...

Schreck and stepps may find their banter in this thread.

Can I ask why a thread exists that's titled "Fuck you, I got your film for nothing, cumstain."? (Should I guess which shoot-from-the-hip dude named the thread?)

It's no wonder the ratio of men to women on Internet message boards is 14:1.

craig.

evillights wrote:Can I ask why a thread exists that's titled "Fuck you, I got your film for nothing, cumstain."? (Should I guess which shoot-from-the-hip dude named the thread?)

It's no wonder the ratio of men to women on Internet message boards is 14:1.

If you read the thread you would find out. This is a verbatim quotation of an email that Nick at MoC received.

evillights wrote:It's no wonder the ratio of men to women on Internet message boards is 14:1.

I don't want to blow her cover, so I won't link to the forums where my wife hangs out - but believe you me, the language there from its overwhelmingly female clientele would make Tarantino and David Mamet blush scarlet.

MichaelB wrote:

evillights wrote:It's no wonder the ratio of men to women on Internet message boards is 14:1.

I don't want to blow her cover, so I won't link to the forums where my wife hangs out - but believe you me, the language there from its overwhelmingly female clientele would make Tarantino and David Mamet blush scarlet.

OT, but this reminds me of a favorite joke of mine:

A man passes a beggar on the street.

In response to the indigent's plea for change the man says "'Neither a borrower nor a lender be.' -- William Shakespeare."

The beggar responds: "'Fuck you!' -- David Mamet."

This post is mostly a tangent.

But first. I regard 'piracy' to be when someone makes copies of a DVD and sells them for profit (obviously without permission). File sharing I feel doesn't fit into the category of piracy. Also, file-sharing is of course infringing copyright laws, and thus illegal, but I don't consider this to be 'stealing'. Stealing is when you take something away from someone, or when take someones idea/material and use it for profit. So, file-sharing is infringing copyright (illegal, immoral to many), but I think shouldn't be classed as stealing.

Anyway, my main reason for posting is to mention my recent beahviour regarding pirated DVDs in China. I mentioned on a different post, that I will happily buy fake DVDs of films that are more than 50 years old. So, there are many hundreds of new DVDs that I could buy for cheap in China, which I just won't buy. So the other day, I thought... it's wrong to buy the fakes, but is it wrong to steal the fakes? Those guys are crooks, right? So, they can't point the finger at me, no? So, over the past two months I've stolen I estimate well over 50 DVDs. And, one happened to be MoC - 'When a Woman Ascends the Stairs" and even a few 'Second Run'.
So, are my actions forgivable? I await your judgement.

P.S. I have and never will steal anything else. But to mention, shoplifting is quite nerve racking!

I hope you get caught. If nothing else you might learn something along the lines of two wrongs not making a right.

You didn't ask about this but you may want to re-think your 50 year rule, which I think if more people adopted would discourage film restoration.

So, are my actions forgivable? I await your judgement.

I don't think this happens there but in the United States retailers who sell bootlegs risk losing all the merchandise if the police raid them. This is not extremely common but I have seen it happen, and the stores that it happened to changed their policy on what they'll sell. An individual swiping them of course isn't the same thing, but one could make a case that it doesn't do a whole lot of harm. However, it really would be better to save up and buy actual legitimate Second Run and MoC titles, but maybe you can't get them where you are. Generally, though, they need the support, and I personally would not want to own a shoddy imitation that used those companies' good names, even if I got the thing for nothing.
Another small thing wrong with it is that it's imprudent. If you find it nerve-wracking then you probably show some signs of nervousness and thus are more likely to be seen.

Anyway, this question reminds me of what Sue Mingus wrote at the end of Tonight at Noon about stealing bootleg Charles Mingus albums. She went into music stores and would walk out with stacks of them, and usually no one noticed or said a word to try to stop her. Finally, she was caught and when the store manager yelled at her and said he was going to call the police, she encouraged him to do so and said that she would hold a press conference and use the arrest to bring attention to the issue of music stores selling heaps of pirated recordings. They started to listen to her point of view and ended up letting her take all the Mingus bootlegs, many of which she ended up later releasing as authorized albums on her Revenge label.

peerpee wrote:If any kindly Swedish forum members would like to grass up the names and addresses of the people behind the sites, I would like to offer a selection of MoC DVDs as a reward.

peerpee wrote:I have no qualms about anything I've said

peerpee wrote:Haha! -- Wow, thanks for the free reign for me to be reactionary, you've really been exceedingly generous. Re: my comments no longer being excusable -- haha!

peerpee wrote:Haha! Such tripe! You're digging a massive hole for yourself.

I'm new to this forum, and I've found a lot of great and informative threads. A really great place to hang out and discuss film. Then I stumbled upon this thread and I was saddened and shocked I love MoC, and I have most of your releases, but the attitude and use of words brought forward by you, Nick, through this thread has really put some dents in my admiration. I'm not talking about your problems with file-sharing - I have my own feelings about that subject. But to offer your masterpieces as rewards for informing on people and your offensive way of addressing people who disagree with you comes across as really counter-productive and even hateful. I would never have thought this possible from such a well-respected company.

I will probably continue to buy MoC-releases, but I'm really sorry that they'll shine just a little less bright on my shelves

robotjox wrote:But to offer your masterpieces as rewards for informing on people and your offensive way of addressing people who disagree with you comes across as really counter-productive and even hateful. I would never have thought this possible from such a well-respected company.

I will probably continue to buy MoC-releases, but I'm really sorry that they'll shine just a little less bright on my shelves

Are you American by any chance?