criterionforum.org

Askew wrote:

swo17 wrote:Note that this is not the same thing as saying that we are halfway to having the whole collection upgraded. Since they release new spine numbers exclusively on Blu-ray every month, the percentage you guys are measuring would continue to increase (eventually getting to 50% and higher) even if they never upgraded a single catalog title.

Exactly what I was going to say. I believe that only around a quarter of the old DVD releases have been upgraded to bluray at this point.

from spine 535 on they went all blu all the time, so 534 minus 74 out of print titles is 460 spines, 155 of the spine numbers from 1-534 are available in bluray, so minus 7 out of print titles is 148 spines or 32% of the pre 535 collection is available in bluray.

iirc, Leon Morin Priest is the only post 535 spine out of print.

For what it's worth, the figure I get, from Criterion's BluRay listings on its website, is 121 films that were originally released on DVD with their own spine number and have subsequently been upgraded to BluRay.

Listing by spine number, there are four full pages of 25 titles apiece of pre-Blu titles = 100
Then, on the next page there are another six spines before we get to the first batch of Blus, plus (only?) two subsequent DVD releases that have been upgraded (The Spy Who Came In from the Cold and The Last Days of Disco) = 8
Then you have to figure in the DVD spine numbers that have been upgraded to Blu but for which the spine numbers didn't follow through: The Beales of Grey Gardens (now folded into Grey Gardens), the Cassavetes box, Fanny and Alexander - for instance, the latter originally encompassed four spine numbers, on Blu it's only one): 1 + 6 + 3 = 10
And then there's the Samurai Trilogy, which is listed at the end of Criterion's list, upgrades three spines and never came in a box originally = 3.

That gives us 121 upgraded spines. Somebody else will have to calculate the 'originally on DVD only' total. At any rate, all of this will be skewed by Criterion's old practice of allocating spine numbers to the box in a box set, and that's going to skew in favour of DVDs. There are only three such 'empty' spine numbers in my figure of 121, I think (Cassavetes, Monterey Pop and Fanny & Alexander), but there would be 23 or so in the total DVD count.

My brain hurts.

Roughly, if there are about 250 in-print DVD titles that are eligible for an upgrade, and 121 upgrades/5.5 years = 22 upgrades per year, we're talking a little more than 11 more years until everything gets upgraded. This is pretty well consistent with movielocke's assertion that about one-third of the in-print collection has now been upgraded.

Wow, 11 years...right in time for my mid-life crisis.

Of course, as Gregory suggested, what's more likely is that the upgrades will eventually peter out, and 20 years from now, there will still be titles that haven't been upgraded.

Factoring in titles I don't like, will never be renewed in time, and will be reissued in excellent Blu-Rays elsewhere (Arrow, MoC, etc.), I'm hoping everything I'd want will be available in some upgraded form in five rather than 11 years.

Here are the 154 back catalog Bluray spine numbers I counted from spine number 1 to 534: first the OOP titles:

64 The Third Man
112 Playtime
218 Le Cercle Rouge
304 The Man Who Fell To Earth
385 Army of Shadows
421 Pierrot Le Fou
478 Last Year At Marienbad

2 Seven Samurai
3 Lady Vanishes, The
4 Amarcord
5 400 Blows, The
6 Beauty and the Beast
7 Night to Remember, A
10 Walkabout
11 Seventh Seal, The
14 Samurai I: Musashi Miyamoto
15 Samurai II: Duel at Ichijoji Temple
16 Samurai III: Duel at Ganryu Island
17 Salò, or the 120 Days of Sodom
18 The Naked Kiss
19 Shock Corridor
24 High and Low
29 Picnic at Hanging Rock
30 M
35 Diabolique
36 The Wages of Fear
39 Branded to Kill
39 Tokyo Drifter
43 Lord of the Flies
44 The Red Shoes
48 Black Orpheus
51 Brazil
52 Yojimbo
53 Sanjuro
54 For All Mankind
56 The 39 Steps
57 Charade
60 Autumn Sonata
65 Rushmore
68 Orpheus
70 The Last Temptation of Christ
76 Brief Encounter
91 The Blob
93 Black Narcissus
95 All That Heaven Allows
99 Gimme Shelter
115 Rififi
116 The Hidden Fortress
123 Grey Gardens
138 Rashomon
139 Wild Strawberries
140 8 1/2
141 Children of Paradise
147 In the Mood for Love
151 Traffic
152 George Washington
157 The Royal Tenenbaums
164 Solaris
166 Down By Law
167 The Complete Monterey Pop Festival
168 Monterey Pop
169 Jimi Plays Monterey & Shake! Otis At Monterey
173 The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp
174 Band of Outsiders
175 Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
178 My Life as a Dog
184 By Brakhage: An Anthology
190 Throne of Blood
201 Umberto D.
213 Richard III
216 The Rules of the Game
217 Tokyo Story
220 Naked Lunch
230 3 Women
234 The Tin Drum
235 The Leopard
237 Smiles of a Summer night
247 Slacker
248 Videodrome
249 The Battle of Algiers
250 John Cassavetes: Five Films
251 Shadows
252 Faces
253 A Woman Under the Influence
254 The Killing of a Chinese Bookie
255 Opening Night
256 A Constant Forge
259 Fat Girl
260 Eyes Without a Face
261 Fanny And Alexander Box Set
262 Fanny and Alexander - TV Version
263 Fanny and Alexander - The Theatrical Version
264 Making of Fanny and Alexander
267 Kagemusha
278 L'Eclisse
281 Jules and Jim
300 The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou
302 Harakiri
307 Naked
326 Metropolitan
330 Au Revoir Les Enfants
331 Late Spring
336 Dazed and Confused
339 Yi Yi
356 Sweetie
359 The Double Life of Veronique
361 The Beales of Grey Gardens
381 La Haine
382 Overlord
386 Sansho the Bailiff
387 La Jetee/Sans Soleil
391 If…
396 Ace In the Hole
397 Ivan's Childhood
404 Robinson Crusoe On Mars
408 Breathless
409 Days of Heaven
414 Two-Lane Blacktop
422 The Last Emperor
426 The Ice Storm
445 The Earrings of Madame De…
450 Bottle Rocket
452 The Spy Who Came In From the Cold
453 Chungking Express
458 El Norte
462 The Last Metro
466 In the Realm of the Senses
476 The Curious Case of Benajamin Button
477 Bergman Island
483 Repulsion
485 The Last Days of Disco
488 Howards End
489 Monsoon Wedding
490 Wings of Desire
492 A Christmas Tale
493 Gomorrah
496 Che
501 Paris, Texas
502 Revanche
503 Lola Montes
504 Hunger
507 Bigger than Life
512 Vivre Sa Vie
513 Summer Hours
514 Ride with the Devil
516 Stagecoach
517 By Brakhage: An Anthology Volume One and Two
518 By Brakhage: An Anthology Volume One and Two
519 Close-Up
520 Everlasting Moments
521 Mystery Train
522 Red Desert
527 The Secret of the Grain
533 Crumb


Then, here are the 75 OOP titles I've counted from the same 1-534 back catalog.

1 Grand Illusion
8 Killer, The
9 Hard Boiled
12 This is Spinal Tap
13 The Silence of the Lambs
20 Sid & Nancy
21 Dead Ringers
23 Robocop
25 Alphaville
26 The Long Good Friday
27 Flesh For Frankenstein
28 Blood For Dracula
37 Time Bandits
49 Nights of Cabiria
55 The Unbearable Lightness of Being
58 Peeping Tom
64 The Third Man
66 The Orphic Trilogy
67 The Blood of a Poet
69 Testament of Orpheus
78 The Bank Dick
79 W.C. Fields: 6 Short Films
81 Variety Lights
83 The Harder They Come
102 The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie
106 Coup De Torchon
107 Mona Lisa
110 M. Hulot's Holiday
111 Mon Uncle
112 Playtime
117 Diary of a Chambermaid
119 Withnail and I
120 How to Get Ahead in Advertising
121 Billy Liar
129 Le Trou
135 Rebecca
136 Spellbound
137 Notorious
143 That Obscure Object of Desire
150 Bob Le Flambeur
155 Tokyo Olympiad
171 Contempt
182 Straw Dogs
189 The White Sheik
193 Quai Des Orfevres
203 The Brd Trilogy
204 The Marriage of Maria Braun
205 Lola
206 Veronika Voss
218 Le Cercle Rouge
222 Diary of a Country Priest
227 Le Corbeau
238 A Woman is a Woman
245 Port of Shadows
271 Touchez Pas Au Grisbi
290 The Phantom of Liberty
304 The Man Who Fell To Earth
316 Ran
317 The Tales of Hoffman
318 Forbidden Games
325 Kind Hearts and Coronets
357 The Fallen Idol
369 Paul Robeson: Portraits of the Artist
370 Body and Soul & Borderline
371 The Emperor Jones and Paul Robeson: Tribute to an Artist
372 Sanders of the River and Jericho
373 The Proud Valley and Native Land
385 Army of Shadows
402 The Milky Way
421 Pierrot Le Fou
424 Mafioso
439 Trafic
441 The Small Back Room
447 Le Doulos
478 Last Year At Marienbad

so, 147 of 459 eligible back catalog spine numbers have been upgraded.

And, so long as I'm copying and pasting from excel, here's a list for collectors of all the empty spine numbers from multifilm box sets (excluding, arkadin, alexanderplatz, shoah, etaix, human condition, and Zatoichi which all had a single spine number for the whole set)

66 The Orphic Trilogy
86 Eisenstein: The Sound Years
124 Carl Theodor Dreyer Box Set
167 The Complete Monterey Pop Festival
179 I Am Curious… Box Set
185 The Adventures of Antoine Doinel
203 The Brd Trilogy
208 A Film Trilogy by Ingmar Bergman
241 Stage and Spectacle: Three Films by Jean Renoir
250 John Cassavetes: Five Films
261 Fanny And Alexander Box Set
282 Andrzej Wajda: Three War Films
327 3 Films By Louis Malle
342 Six Moral Tales
364 Monsters and Madmen
369 Paul Robeson: Portraits of the Artist
392 Three Films By Hiroshi Teshigahara
418 4 By Agnès Varda
471 Pigs, Pimps & Prostitutes: 3 Films by Shohei Imamura
500 Roberto Rossellini's War Trilogy
508 Letters from Fontainhas: Three Films by Pedro Costa
524 The Only Son/There Was a Father
528 3 Silent Classics by Josef Von Sternberg
587 Three Colors Trilogy
603 David Lean directs Noel Coward
631 Trilogy of Life
639 Qatsi Trilogy, The
672 Rossellini Bergman
684 Martin Scorsese's World Cinema Project

New Hollywood is the only boxset without a spine number.

movielocke wrote: 450 Bottle Rocket
452 The Spy Who Came In From the Cold
453 Chungking Express
458 El Norte
462 The Last Metro
466 In the Realm of the Senses
476 The Curious Case of Benajamin Button
477 Bergman Island
483 Repulsion
485 The Last Days of Disco
488 Howards End
489 Monsoon Wedding
490 Wings of Desire
492 A Christmas Tale
493 Gomorrah
496 Che
501 Paris, Texas
502 Revanche
503 Lola Montes
504 Hunger
507 Bigger than Life
512 Vivre Sa Vie
513 Summer Hours
514 Ride with the Devil
516 Stagecoach
517 By Brakhage: An Anthology Volume One and Two
518 By Brakhage: An Anthology Volume One and Two
519 Close-Up
520 Everlasting Moments
521 Mystery Train
522 Red Desert
527 The Secret of the Grain
533 Crumb

Most of these were originally released as BluRays, so they can't be counted as Blu upgrades (if that's what you were doing?) - but it does remind me that I forgot to include By Brakhage One as an upgrade, so 122!

movielocke wrote:New Hollywood is the only boxset without a spine number.

Unless you include a couple of after-the-fact boxes, like Yojimbo / Sanjuro, Grey Gardens and Samurai Trilogy, the last of which underwent the unique evolution of: individual releases -> 'collector's set' -> (upgraded) box set.

zedz wrote: Most of these were originally released as BluRays, so they can't be counted as Blu upgrades (if that's what you were doing?) - but it does remind me that I forgot to include By Brakhage One as an upgrade, so 122!

ah well there's the point we diverge, then. From 535 onward every new release has been blu, so since there are quite a lot of spines between 450 and 534 that were not released as blus, I'm counting those as well, since they would be upgrades if done now. after working out that over 50% of the in-print collection was available in bluray, I wasn't trying to make a list of only bluray upgrades but trying to figure out how much of the in-print back catalog was bluray (32%)

edited to reflect posts further down

Total spine numbers: 720
Total Bluray spine numbers: 342
Total DVD only spine numbers: 378

Total Out of print spine numbers: 79
Total Out of print bluray spine numbers: 10

Total in Print spine numbers: 641
Total in print bluray spine numbers: 332

Total number of spines that have been upgraded to bluray: 124
Total number of in print spines that have been upgraded to bluray: 118

Total number of in print spines that are DVD only: 309
Total number of out of print spines that are DVD only: 69

I'm using spines rather than titles to avoid the confusion of the empty spine numbers of box sets screwing with the numbers. The exception is A constant Forge, which is counted as an upgrade, even though its spine number disappeared in the upgrade, the spine of the empty cassavetes box did carry over and counts as well.

Total number of in print spines that are DVD only: 310

So, if they avg 24 upgrades a year (2 every month), it would take CC approximately 13 years to blu their whole catalogue. Depressing.

FrauBlucher wrote:

Total number of in print spines that are DVD only: 310

So, if they avg 24 upgrades a year (2 every month), it would take CC approximately 13 years to blu their whole catalogue. Depressing.

What would the math be if they took a hiatus on producing new releases to catch up on upgrading their catalog to BD?

Yaanu wrote: What would the math be if they took a hiatus on producing new releases to catch up on upgrading their catalog to BD?

It would be minus all of the relatively small amount I spend on Criterions these days, for starters.

Does anyone have a list of oop titles to crosscheck against the list i posted above? I feel like i missed a few.

75 should be 78:

453 Chungking Express
463 Il generale Della Rovere
488 Howards End

I've got updated versions of my Criterion checklists. I'd quote my older post and just do it like that, but this is special because I'm using the newer build of Google Sheets instead. The old links will still work, but they won't be updated anymore.

BD Checklist: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
DVD Checklist: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Dual-Format Checklist: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Eclipse Checklist: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
LaserDisc Checklist: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Please let me know if there's any inaccurate information or if some of the cells don't do anything when altered.
Also, if you want a copy of your own, you should be able to either Download As what ever file format you wish, or Make A Copy for your own Google Drive account, if you have one.

EDIT: Eclipse Checklist added.

FrauBlucher wrote:So, if they avg 24 upgrades a year (2 every month), it would take CC approximately 13 years to blu their whole catalogue. Depressing.

They're not going to Blu the whole catalogue, at least not in the 2K BR format. there are some titles that are obscure or sold poorly to the point they'll likely never get to them.

Yaanu wrote:What would the math be if they took a hiatus on producing new releases to catch up on upgrading their catalog to BD?

That's a pointless exercise. If anything, the rate of upgrades is going to slow as they get more of the in-demand titles out of the way. With the studios' interest in home media continuing to flag, Criterion's energies will be concentrated more and more on bringing out "big" titles like The Big Chill, Tootsie and A Hard Day's Night.

Gregory wrote:75 should be 78:

453 Chungking Express
463 Il generale Della Rovere
488 Howards End

Thanks very much!

Noiradelic wrote:

FrauBlucher wrote:So, if they avg 24 upgrades a year (2 every month), it would take CC approximately 13 years to blu their whole catalogue. Depressing.

They're not going to Blu the whole catalogue, at least not in the 2K BR format. there are some titles that are obscure or sold poorly to the point they'll likely never get to them.

I figured that's the case. But there are still 200 to 300 important films that need to be restored and upgraded. It will still take CC many years to get them all in....

Noiradelic wrote:

Yaanu wrote:What would the math be if they took a hiatus on producing new releases to catch up on upgrading their catalog to BD?

That's a pointless exercise. If anything, the rate of upgrades is going to slow as they get more of the in-demand titles out of the way. With the studios' interest in home media continuing to flag, Criterion's energies will be concentrated more and more on bringing out "big" titles like The Big Chill, Tootsie and A Hard Day's Night.

....And I agree the studio's vaults are open for CC to release the "big" titles from them. Which is another reason that it will take years for titles to get the upgrade.

Noiradelic wrote:

FrauBlucher wrote:So, if they avg 24 upgrades a year (2 every month), it would take CC approximately 13 years to blu their whole catalogue. Depressing.

They're not going to Blu the whole catalogue, at least not in the 2K BR format. there are some titles that are obscure or sold poorly to the point they'll likely never get to them.

Yaanu wrote:What would the math be if they took a hiatus on producing new releases to catch up on upgrading their catalog to BD?

That's a pointless exercise. If anything, the rate of upgrades is going to slow as they get more of the in-demand titles out of the way. With the studios' interest in home media continuing to flag, Criterion's energies will be concentrated more and more on bringing out "big" titles like The Big Chill, Tootsie and A Hard Day's Night.

I agree that they'd never take a hiatus from releasing films they've never worked on, but they have a long and consistent track record of keeping titles in print whenever possible and eventually upgrading as many films as possible from the LD and DVD-only eras to newer formats, not necessarily in order of demand/past sales. Even with titles that are not their strongest sellers, they still want to continue offering them in the current formats and packaging, which is why we get as many upgrades and repackagings as we do. The limiting factors are licensing, availability of high-quality masters, and in some cases such as Summertime, the addition of bonus materials.

They would have to release over 12 upgrades per month for two years to upgrade the back catalog.

has summertime not been upgraded because of a search for supplements?

They probably and logically upgrading as rights are to be renewed, especially since they are releasing both dvd/blu combo.

Does anyone have a list of shorts available on Criterion dvds?