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During the BN sale I had been hoping for a BD upgrade for this film. Very happy it's coming!

andyli wrote:Are the images on the new cover made from framegrabs of the 4k restoration? In that case can we see this as an early clue that Criterion will get rid of the tint from Shochiku's master?

I don't think we can assume very much about how the Criterion version will look until it actually comes out. It's possible they will apply their own tweaks to the 4k restoration, or that the Shochiko Blu-ray had some tweaks of its own compared to the restoration, including the tint.

Toda Family, which I've seen several times now, has not really improved its standing (with me) over time. Still pretty close to the bottom of my Ozu list.

New extra added to the upcoming dual-format release:

Documentary from 1988 about actor Chishu Ryu’s career at Shochiku’s Ofuna studios, featuring a lengthy interview with Ryu

dwk wrote:New extra added to the upcoming dual-format release:

Documentary from 1988 about actor Chishu Ryu’s career at Shochiku’s Ofuna studios, featuring a lengthy interview with Ryu

Sounds lovely, do they say how long this is?

I copied the description directly from Criterion's Tokyo Story page, and it had no indication of the documentary's length.

Presumably the top one listed here, although the year seems to be 1980 rather than 1988.
俳優笠智衆　わたしと松竹大船撮影所 ("Actor Ryu Chishu: Shochiku Ofuna Studio and Me")
The run time is listed variously as 60 minutes or 46 minutes but since this was broadcast on TV, it's presumably 46 mins. sans ads.
It seems it may have been included on Shochiku's first Ozu box set back in 2003 but that has long since gone OOP.
It sounds very interesting though, I'm looking forward to seeing it.

For the folks in the NY Area: The Film Forum has added the 60th Anniversary Restoration to their calendar. It will be screening Oct 16 thru Oct 24. Perfect timing with the blu ray release coming.

Nice! I'll definitely get there.

As some of us have expected, it appears that Criterion has corrected the brownish look of the Japanese release.

artfilmfan wrote:As some of us have expected, it appears that Criterion has corrected the brownish look of the Japanese release.

The question remains : was it to be corrected or should it have this sepia tint ?
FWIW, the French Carlotta release has retained this sepia tint.

No sign of sepia that I can tell in the shots from The University of Tokyo restoration project: http://www.um.u-tokyo.ac.jp/publish_db/ ... 01-15.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tenia wrote:

artfilmfan wrote:As some of us have expected, it appears that Criterion has corrected the brownish look of the Japanese release.

The question remains : was it to be corrected or should it have this sepia tint ?
FWIW, the French Carlotta release has retained this sepia tint.

I can't imagine that a black and white film was intended to have anything but black and white tonalities. Emulsions on vintage preservation copies sometimes over time get a greenish look, a bluish look, occasionally a yellowish brown look, but these are to be corrected during the transfer if not during photochem resto to a new low contrast interneg or whatever. This is NOT Wee Willie Winkie, I assure you!

Could it be that a film stock generate warmer tones, with an overall look tending towards "reddish/brownish" color ?

I had seen a few (admittedly battered) film prints of Tokyo Story prior to the restoration and none of them had the sepia tone. Unless wear and tear "bled" the sepia tone out of the prints and made them look "black and white again", which seems highly unlikely and far-fetched. When I saw the Shochiku BD screenshots my first reaction was that someone had definitely messed up.

tenia wrote:Could it be that a film stock generate warmer tones

Black and White film stock has no color temperature, period. It contains no dye couplers in the emulsion. The black (or the white rather) comes from silver particles.

andyli wrote:

tenia wrote:Could it be that a film stock generate warmer tones

Black and White film stock has no color temperature, period. It contains no dye couplers in the emulsion. The black (or the white rather) comes from silver particles.

Thanks for the precision.

The Elegant Dandy Fop wrote:DVDBeaver

Judging solely by the dvdbeaver screen captures, I'd say Criterion has thrown in some extra sharpening (in addition to eliminating the warmish tinge of the Shochiku release). I would hope the Criterion subs are better -- but not certain yet that I see a reason to buy a 3rd blu-ray version. ;~}

Surprisingly, the more frequently I look at the screen capture comparisons between the Shochiku and the Criterion, the more favorable toward the Shochiku I feel. Doesn't the much larger file size of the Shochiku (nearly 45 Gbytes vs. 28 Gbytes) mean that there is more visual information/detail in it? And the larger your TV screen size, the more noticeable the difference is visually?

artfilmfan wrote:Doesn't the much larger file size of the Shochiku (nearly 45 Gbytes vs. 28 Gbytes) mean that there is more visual information/detail in it?

This is only true when:
1) Shochiku and Criterion use the same encoding methodology, hence the same efficiency.
2) There is more visual info/detail in the source to call for a data size that is greater than 28GB in the first place.

With TS being a 4:3 B/W picture of normal length, I'd say there is a lot of redundant data in Shochiku's encode. But then again, Criterion is not particularly known for doing sufficient/efficient encodes :-" .

Thanks for your reply, Andy.

I've just looked at the file size of Charulata at DVDBeaver. It's 35 Gbytes. And Charulata is 17 minutes shorter than Tokyo Story. I think it would be hard to find anyone who does not think that Charulata looks wonderful.

Considering that Criterion needs disc space for the extra materials, I just hope that the Criterion Tokyo Story is a case of "best looking possible" (lossless compression) instead of "looking good enough" (acceptable compression).

In all logic, with the same source, there's probably not a lot of things a higher average bitrate can do, except avoiding compression artefacts and helping for a better resolve of the film grain.
As a base, it's always better to properly max out everything you can, but a high bitrate is not always needed. Moreover, you can still have a high bitrate and get compression artefacts.
However, to give exemples of movies which are quite action-packed (so draining a need for high bitrates) and are not 4:3 (so with more picture not being just black bars) :
Star Trek Into Darkness has a 26 Mbps AVB, Super 8 23 Mbps, The Dark Knight Rises 23 Mbps, The Amazing Spider Man 23 Mbps, Scott Pilgrim 25 Mbps, Brave 24 Mbps, Oz The Great 27 Mbps, Man Of Steel 21 Mbps, etc etc.

tenia wrote:In all logic, with the same source, there's probably not a lot of things a higher average bitrate can do, except avoiding compression artefacts and helping for a better resolve of the film grain.

I've been trying to come up with a word to describe the Shochiku. I keep thinking of "textured". When I look at the screen capture comparisons at DVDBeaver, what I've kept thinking is that the Shochiku looks more textured. The best example is screen capture #3. Grandma simply looks better (more textured) in the Shochiku capture. I wonder if "a higher average bitrate ... helping for a better resolve of the film grain" has something to do with the more textured look.

This more textured look is what makes me leaning toward the Shochiku. (Oh, about Grandpa's hair looking ... ahem... "orangey", I'll just have to accept that.)


And among other things, the prominent film grain seen on the Charulata caps is what makes the Criterion Blu-ray of Charulata look very appealing and wonderful.