criterionforum.org

I caught the new restoration of this over the weekend and it looks absolutely fantastic. I've never seen this before, but compared to the screenshots from the Criterion Blu-Ray on this site the new restoration looks a tad bit brighter, especially this shot. I couldn't even begin to comment on how correct or incorrect this new presentation is, but to my eyes it was beautiful and razor sharp, often looking like it could have been filmed recently. As for the film itself, it was one of the most incredible experiences I've ever had in a theater. We were told beforehand to not actively try to figure out what's going on and instead just let it wash over us, and I think this allowed me to appreciate the film more as an abstract dreamlike piece rather than a more straightforward mystery (which was what I was expecting going into it).

The new restoration definitely has poor black levels. It's OK when it's just a bit high and not perfectly 0 0 0 everywhere, but here, if I recall correctly, it's stuck quite high (above 10). I'm not sure if it's a disc issue, but it could be a choice made at the restoration level. Eclair often does that, for instance (Marienbad was restored by Hiventy). I don't think it's that much of a problem here, but it is noticeable very easily as soon as the shot is low-lit.

I shamefully only saw this for the first time a few months ago so I never owned the Criterion. But the Kino that was just released is pretty solid; Tim Lucas’ commentary belabors the obvious a bit for my taste but is acceptable, and all the material from Volker Schlondorff is really enlightening. The presentation is very good, though with all the issues Kino’s been having I could easily be missing some problem.

The disc only includes one Resnais short, Toute la memoire du monde which I gather was also on the Criterion release, and I just want to say I found it positively enchanting... maybe because I am a librarian, I loved the mystical, awestruck quality it displayed toward the Bibliotechque. Perhaps this is flippant but it kind of serves as a concise interpretation of the same basic points made by Frederick Wiseman in his recent, sprawling documentary about the NYPL.. in the same way that Night and Fog somewhat more artfully supplements Shoah. In both cases it’s a fascinating study of how Resnais and a more “grounded” (for lack of a better word) filmmaker can approach similar subject matter in such sharply divergent, almost conflicting — but equally engrossing — ways.

You don’t mention the only extra from that release I’m interested in, though: the nearly hour-long James Quandt visual essay!

domino harvey wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:50 pm You don’t mention the only extra from that release I’m interested in, though: the nearly hour-long James Quandt visual essay!

Sorry, I forgot! I liked it a lot, it was more informative and better-paced than the commentary. There was a bit of padding to cover every letter of the alphabet (H for Hitchcock...), which seemed like kind of a contrived format for it, but otherwise -- high marks.

Thanks, I really liked the A-Z he did for L’argent, though it similarly had some leaps in order to use all 26 letters

dustybooks wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:24 pm

domino harvey wrote: Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:50 pm You don’t mention the only extra from that release I’m interested in, though: the nearly hour-long James Quandt visual essay!

Sorry, I forgot! I liked it a lot, it was more informative and better-paced than the commentary. There was a bit of padding to cover every letter of the alphabet (H for Hitchcock...), which seemed like kind of a contrived format for it, but otherwise -- high marks.

Finally saw this and thought it was probably Quandt's strongest A-Z essay yet, though he really just kind of gives up near the end-- the Hitchcock letter made sense, but invoking the director of La flor here was way too tenuous

Assuming price isn't a factor, which would be the better blu package-Criterion or Kino?

barryconvex wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:59 am Assuming price isn't a factor, which would be the better blu package-Criterion or Kino?

I actually recommend the Studiocanal. The Kino has better extras and uses the same restoration, but to my eye they have boosted the brightness too much. The SC is darker and looks more appealing to me. I haven't seen the film on 35mm so I don't know which is correct, but I suspect it is the SC.

I'm waiting for a Studio Canal 4k re-issue, the BD I have from them has the subtitles in the black bar (a pain for projection) and the Criterion has a video generated credit for Canal+ burnt in.

Glad this thread has been bumped up. I'm currently looking to just pull the trigger on the OOP criterion blu. Like barryconvex, money isn't an issue really here (and I set myself to a pretty decent limit on what I would pay for the Criterion) but I am not region free and don't have enough wants for international disc releases to justify going so in that direction and I don't support Kino at all. I can live without owning a potential future UHD release but after looking at a few comparisons the Crit does seem like it still holds up at least it does perfectly for my preferences. Basically the question now is what is everyone's opinion on an actual good/decent price to shell out for a brand new sealed copy of the OOP crit?

I have the Criterion and can’t speak to the extras, but it looks great. I am curious about that Quandt A-Z essay though after domino’s comment on the mention of Mariano Llinás... a silly reason but I’m wondering what was the context of the comparison

Z was for Historias extraordinarias as the characters there are similarly named to those here, by letter (there H, X, and Z)

That makes a lot of sense actually, but I can see how the connection is weakly tacked on, especially given the contexts of each film with one rooted in its involvement of said characters’ effects on each other while the other doesn’t have any such interest. Thanks!

andyli wrote: Sat Dec 22, 2018 2:55 am Great. I hope they port over the two bonus shorts and make them 1080p. (The new Studio Canal blu-ray included both shorts in new restorations but encoded them in 1080i.)

I've done a comparison of the documentary shorts on the 4 Blu-rays:
- Criterion
- Kino Lorber
- Studio Canal 2009 "StudioCanal Collection"
- Studio Canal 2018 "Vintage World Cinema"

Toute la mémoire du monde
- Criterion: Encoded at 1080i60. Runtime 20:57 due running at PAL-speed even though encoded at 60fps.
- Kino Lorber: Encoded at 1080p. Runtime 21:58.
- Studio Canal 2009 "StudioCanal Collection": Encoded at 1080p. Runtime 22:06.
- Studio Canal 2018 "Vintage World Cinema": Encoded at 1080i50. Runtime 21:02.

The Criterion & 2009 Studio Canal releases open with a page of acknowledgments in French that has not been included in the transfer used on the KL & 2018 SC releases. The title card includes a credit "Pierre Braunberger (Du Groupe des XXX) présente" that also does not appear on the newer transfer. The acknowledgments page appears to be part of the original film and I think it's a shame it was not retained in the newer restoration.
The Criterion appears to come from a PAL-video source. Lowest video quality of all releases.
Both the KL & 2018 SC releases are the exact same transfer, just encoded at different fps. They open with the same restoration credit for the CNC, which appears instead of the original acknowledgments page.
The 2009 SC transfer runs slightly longer, but it's just because of the differences in the opening and longer black screen at the end. It is cropped & slightly zoomed compared to the newer restoration.

Le chant du Styrene
- Criterion: Encoded at 1080p. Runtime 13:37.
- Kino Lorber: Not included.
- Studio Canal 2009 "StudioCanal Collection": Encoded at 1080p. Runtime 13:38.
- Studio Canal 2018 "Vintage World Cinema": Encoded at 1080i50. Runtime 13:07.

Once again, the Studio Canal releases appear to be the exact same transfer, just encoded at different fps. I do not see any indication the 2018 Studio Canal uses a newer source.
However, the Criterion source is very different. The opening credits are quite different. It starts with "Pechiney présente" and then on-screen title is simply "Styrene". Alain Resnais is not credited with "réalisation", he is given a dual-credit for "images" with Sacha Vierny. Raymond Queneau is not credited at all.
The SC releases start with "Pierre Braunberger presente" and then the full title "Le chant du Styrene". Alain Resnais is credited with "réalisation", Sacha Vierny is credited with "images", Raymond Queneau is credited with "texte".
I would guess the Criterion scan comes from a print, it has a very contrasty, darker look. The colors are often very different than the SC's. The Studio Canal scan probably comes from a source closer to the negative, if not the negative itself. It's much brighter.
BUT, there are numerous instances of missing frames on the SC scan. There are several places where after a cut, there will be a second of black screen while the soundtrack continues before the next image appears. The Criterion scan has the missing frames; there are no random segments of black, it cuts from one shot directly to the next with frames that do not appear in the SC scan.

So it ends up being a real toss-up between all the releases.
- Criterion has a very inferior tranfer of Toute la mémoire du monde, but a unique presntation of Le chant du Styrene that has both positives & negatives.
- KL has the newer restoration of Toute la mémoire du monde encoded at the correct speed, but doesn't include Le chant du Styrene at all.
- The 2009 SC release has both shorts in the correct runtime, but an older scan of Toute la mémoire du monde (although with the opening that has been removed from the new restoration) while Le chant du Styrene is overall higher-quality that the Criterion, but has missing frames.
- The 2018 SC release has the restoration of Toute la mémoire du monde and the same transfer of Le chant du Styrene, but then encoded them both with 50fps speed-up.

Interesting, thanks for the detailed review. I'm curious how you would rate these two films' presentations on Icarus' recent Five Short Films Blu-ray, which would be essential anyway for the other shorts it includes

very awesome writeup there, the shorts are all really worth it so it's nice to see how in depth you got.

this title is a good candidate for a UHD...come on canal, you know you want to!

...