criterionforum.org

If an anti-NeoCon, anti-militarism stance was, in and of itself, sufficient reason to watch something, I'd have been first in line for Southland Tales!

MichaelB wrote:

rs98762001 wrote:I was also kind of astounded by Cameron's outrageously negative depiction of what's clearly meant to be the US military, and I'm surprised that so few conservative and/or pro-military commentators have brought this up. This is a $300 million (or whatever) US studio film, funded by arch-con Murdoch no less, in which the US military is the enemy. He doesn't take the easy way out by casting a coalition of different nationalities as the soldiers. Nope - all American. And they get their shit blown to pieces by the good guys. It's incredibly subversive in a way.

Cameron isn't American.

Also, a huge proportion of the world's population would be only too happy to swallow a scenario in which the US military is the enemy - and since the film's international box-office take dwarfs its domestic one (as did Titanic's), maybe this was deliberate?

I know Cameron isn't American but that's not the point. Avatar is a massive American movie in which American soldiers are not only shown to be the enemy but are blown off the screen with victorious gusto. This, in a country where even the most ardent leftie is honor-bound to repeat ad nauseum how much he/she respects the troops, is something Michael Moore wouldn't dare even consider, yet Cameron gets away with it. This is more than just an "anti-militarism stance," this is blatantly depicting the US to be an enemy worthy of destruction. The fact that it's set 140 years in the future doesn't diminish that. Anyway, I'm certainly not judging this one way or the other, but it just seemed worthy of more comment than it's been getting, especially here in the States. Cameron really is bulletproof.

Caged Horse wrote:If an anti-NeoCon, anti-militarism stance was, in and of itself, sufficient reason to watch something, I'd have been first in line for Southland Tales!

Yeah. "This ludicrously stupid movie has ideas I agree with" shouldn't really be an endorsement.

Regarding Cameron's "anti US Army stance" - the bad guys are portrayed more as mercenaries working for an Evil Corporation and behaving in ways I can assure you the American public does not associate with its armed forces. If anything, these guys would be considered rogue, abberations. Plus, the head military bad guy - the gloriously evil Stephen Lang - is an officer, which further distances the character and his actions from audiences as representative of our army (in the movies at any rate) - it's the grunts who are the REAL people. The comic book level at which everyone is portrayed further de-realizes any identification of these guys as related to what Americans think of as their army (that the film takes place in the future helps). They KNOW that our guys don't behave like that and, in fact, even though I'm critical of this country in a number of different ways, I think that by and large the positive view is right (though there have been exceptions, we aren't the Russian army in Chechnya - yet) even if, for the country that is occupied, this may skip over larger issues. Cameron himself has talked about how the real world is brutal and you need force to deal with it, etc. I don't think the film is making some political anti - US Army statement; it's anti-institutionalized anything. A further reason that no one has recognized this as anti-US Army; the audience identifies with the protagonist, who is quite easily recognizable as a disabled soldier that echoes Iraq pretty loudly. That is who the audience identifies as real Army. The villains are about as representative to an American audience of what they think of as the U.S. Army as they are likely to mistake Wiley Coyote for a real coyote. Sorry for sounding cranky - directed more at Avatar, which I am appalled to see enshrined as visionary, the future of the movies, a wonder and so forth.

Avatar is the feel good hit of the year! C'mon guys. It will get us talking. I will take my kids to McDonald's after the movie and discuss the environment then we will go back to my home which is built upon the ancient petroglyphs. I've talked about the environment, there I've done my part.

eljacko wrote:In general, I think the criticism against the film for not being imaginative enough is almost missing the point; yeah, the script is bare-bones and the characters even worse so, but it's not about either of those and to focus on them is to miss all that is great about the film (the action and the world). I've always thought films like The Last Samurai failed in the same way that this film does, but I also think the good parts of Avatar hold up so well that to dwell on the flaws is to unfairly ignore the film's strengths.

Your right, movies like this are not meant to have a well-written, thought out, logical script.
They can blatantly steal basic plot points of other films,... its cool.

the reason- People are fuckin' tards who don't care about writing. They don't care or never freakin noticed the lifted story. They say "fuck YOU to good acting" as long as they can say "cool" at the end while licking their greasy buttery snausages of fingers.

BTW- I have been noticing how f'ing STUPID kids have become over the past few years as movies like The Fast and the Furious, and 300 become big hits among the "idiot ages".

I swear the dumbing down of America has not subsided in any way.

You AND James Cameron must be some of these sniveling elitists the good folks at FOX keep warning me about...

How sad is it that even David Brooks criticizes Avatar for its colonialist attitudes?

jbeall wrote:How sad is it that even David Brooks criticizes Avatar for its colonialist attitudes?

It begs the question that I never before thought needed asking: Is it okay to agree with David Brooks?

jbeall-I like YOUR Avatar...

We all get snookered by David Brooks' boyish charm sometimes.

I can't believe this isn't an Onion article.

Within the fan community, suggestions for battling feelings of depression after seeing the movie include things like playing "Avatar" video games or downloading the movie soundtrack, in addition to encouraging members to relate to other people outside the virtual realm and to seek out positive and constructive activities.

Coincidentally, I also felt suicidal while watching Avatar, but not for the reasons discussed in this article.

It's natural at some point to envy the world a film creates, but lord, this one?

Other fans have expressed feelings of disgust with the human race

So have detractors

What are the odds that the studio put that story out there?

THEY SHOULDA NEVER GAVE THOSE CAMERONS MONEY!!!!

"...I haven't really put any serious work into writing a script."

Go on!

Avatarded

I hope Cameron gets Michael Blake and Carl Binder to write the script for the sequels [-o<

He could ask the spirit of Leigh Brackett to spell out random letters on a ouija board and the results could hardly be any worse than his solo efforts.

Actually my six year old son has nothing to do for the next 20 minutes or so, I'm sure he wouldn't mind giving it a go?

What really bloody infuriates me is the misanthropic spin that James Cameron had to keep Avatar's dialogue, characterisation and plot as light as possible because otherwise "it'd have put off the audience."

The Dark Knight and Lord of the Rings trilogy both managed relatively deep, dark storylines -- indeed, compared to Avatar they're positively Renoiresque! -- and still achieved massive commercial success.

Amy Racecar wrote:Oh dear.

The ultimate intimacy. LOLOLOLOL

I liked

"with trembling anticipation"

now he's ripping off Harlequin too!