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They cant put out any new Varda, I'm guessing that includes the Gleaners. They have put out some lackluster films that I doubt sold well like The Naked Prey, Fanfan la Tulipe among them, I'm thinking with the release of Che and Benjamin Button, that they are going for newer, more profitable releases, so who knows.

I believe Zeitgeist still owns The Gleaners and I.

The Naked Prey, lackluster?

I was really surprised by how much I enjoyed The Naked Prey. I hope it sold well.

I'll defend The Naked Prey, which was excellent, while still arguing that Criterion are boneheads for not releasing more Varda. I realize that in the wording of Criterion's mission statement, what constitutes an "important" film is somewhat arbitrary, but "important" and "profitable" are clearly two separate things. I hope someone picks up Varda's stuff in R1, b/c it deserves to be seen. Why couldn't Criterion release it on the "essential arthouse" line?

I personally think it's more of a case of "now is not the time" rather than "We won't ever release that."

I'll second that. They released a lot of obscure titles last year in the lead up to bluray and with the economy they're more than entitled to play it safe this year with more cannon, contemporary and English language releases. The pendulum will swing back Varda's way again.

There's no way that The Naked Prey sold poorly. It was stocked in Best Buy stores nationwide, and was one of the more popular films that Criterion has released in the last few years.

Only someone who hasn't seen the film would call it lackluster.

What exactly are you basing that on? Just because a buyer decided to stock The Naked Prey doesn't necessarily mean it was/is a best seller.

I never saw it at any Pennsylvania best buys, basically why release Fanfan if you are solely interested in making $$$.

Can't believe I'm continuing this discussion, but I live in Pennsylvania.

Anyway, Antoine, let me clarify: I only mentioned that as a way of pointing out that it is clearly a popular film, something that people outside of the typical Criterion demographic may be interested in. Also, the resale value for it is quite high still, which is [and I'm only hypothesizing here] usually a good indicator of a DVD's popularity.

if they are strapped for cash, why not try to release more popular obscure films on Blu?

e.g. 8 1/2, The Bicycle Thieves, The Rules of the Game, L'avventura, The Seven Samurai, etc..

What I would do for Antonioni on Criterion Blu, especially L'Avventura or The Passenger

Probably the same thing I would do for Lynch on the Criterion label. Unlikely, though, when considering the Eraserhead fiasco...

aox wrote:if they are strapped for cash, why not try to release more popular obscure films on Blu?

e.g. 8 1/2, The Bicycle Thieves, The Rules of the Game, L'avventura, The Seven Samurai, etc..

I've had my fill on all the releases of TBT, and SS. I've owned umpteen versions over the last decade. But a Blu of 8 1/2 would be nice. I think this first run are of their best sellers. Everybody seems to be cash strapped in this economy. I'm sure we will see some forum faves on Blu-ray pretty soon. But all in all I would love to have the entire collection on Blu-ray. Except for a few of the punchbowl turds.

The Elegant Dandy Fop wrote:They (Criterion) frequently take risks

#-o I see we still have a lot of educating to do...But seriously, after the December announcements, I will be conducting a statistical analysis of their 2009 releases like last year to prove with facts that this just isn't the case.

A 3-disc set of French marine biology shorts? Way to go out on a limb, Criterion What's next, a Will Smith box set?

Three risky releases, if you can call Human Condition and Jeanne Dielman risky, don't compare to about eighteen soft choices. That's not even including the more atypical but slightly obscure to the populace at large releases like the Bunels and Rosselinis (Not that I didn't love those four).

Thomas J. wrote:

The Elegant Dandy Fop wrote:They (Criterion) frequently take risks

#-o I see we still have a lot of educating to do...But seriously, after the December announcements, I will be conducting a statistical analysis of their 2009 releases like last year to prove with facts that this just isn't the case.

I'm sure that per TJ's "statistical analysis," Criterion's "riskiest" release this year will have been Monsoon Wedding. Also, Criterion's best releases this year will be written off because they came from France or Japan. So that tells you about how meaningful it will be.

swo17 wrote:Also, Criterion's best releases this year will be written off because they came from France or Japan. So that tells you about how meaningful it will be.

Or as "Swo" would have it, just because they're from France or Japan I'm supposed to write them in (which I do, in fact). Because that would add meaning to it. Here's the thing: yeah, of course.

Um, no. I'm basing my accusations on the "statistical analysis" that you did last year, an argument that you have made here time and time again:

Thomas J. wrote:

Cinephrenic wrote:Criterion single films (new to DVD): 40 (+24 Eclipse = 64 Total)

Silent era: 0 (+3 Eclipse)
Documentaries: 1
Latin American cinema: 0
African/Middle Eastern cinema: 0

Pathetic.

4.69% of Criterion releases this year were silents.

1.56% were documentaries.

0% were Latin American, African or Middle Eastern...combined!

You tell me how these statistics support the following assertion:

The Criterion Collection...is dedicated to gathering the greatest films from around the world...Criterion began with a mission to pull the treasures of world cinema out of the film vaults and put them in the hands of collectors...our commitment [is] to [publish] the defining moments of cinema...

My point about you "writing off French/Japanese films" is that, never mind that Criterion is finally releasing Marienbad and Human Condition; you would argue that each one is just another film toward the monthly quota of films from that region. Am I wrong?

I find it amusing that people assume that it's Criterion is sitting around going "You know what? Fuck Middle Eastern, African and Latin American cinema! We have some Ben Button and Godards to shit out!". Criterion's decision to release films is based on a complex array of factors including profitability (even more important in a recession and when DVD sales are down); quality of materials; ease of licensing; cost of restoration; cost of producing/obtaining viable extras etc etc etc.

And aren't we forgetting that Criterion just inked a deal with Scorsese's film foundation to bring a whole bunch of newly restored, foreign films to DVD? Here is just a taste of the titles we're getting:

Shadi Abdel Salam’s AL MOMIA (The Mummy - The Night of Counting the Years - Egypt, 1969)
Edward Yang’s A BRIGHTER SUMMMER DAY (Gu ling jie shao nian sha ren shi jian - Taiwan, 1991)
Fred Zinnemann and Emilio Gomez Muriel’s REDES (THE WAVE, Mexico, 1936)
Metin Erksan’s SUSUZ YAZ (Dry Summer - Turkey, 1964)
Djibril Diop Mambety TOUKI BOUKI (Senegal, 1973)
Kim Ki-Young’s HANYO (The Housemaid - South Korea, 1960)
Ahmed El Maanouni’s TRANCES / EL HAL (Transes - Morocco, 1981).

Antoine Doinel wrote:I find it amusing that people assume that it's Criterion is sitting around going "You know what? Fuck Middle Eastern, African and Latin American cinema! We have some Ben Button and Godards to shit out!". Criterion's decision to release films is based on a complex array of factors including profitability (even more important in a recession and when DVD sales are down); quality of materials; ease of licensing; cost of restoration; cost of producing/obtaining viable extras etc etc etc.

Yeah, man...but that mission statement...you know the argument...

swo17 wrote:never mind that Criterion is finally releasing Marienbad and Human Condition; you would argue that each one is just another film toward the monthly quota of films from that region. Am I wrong?

I shouldn't even bother with you. I'm addressing whether or not Criterion takes risks, you call me out on that, and now you're extolling the virtues of releasing Marienbad and Human Condition. Putting it altogether, I guess you think those are risky releases that I'm failing to acknowledge? Bottom line: can you please try to pick an argument and stick with it without diverging onto something else?

And Antoine, yeah, I'm not denying what you're saying...which is why I commented in response to the original poster who said Criterion takes risks. Even you're admitting in your post that they don't because of all those factors you listed.

Thomas J. wrote:

swo17 wrote:never mind that Criterion is finally releasing Marienbad and Human Condition; you would argue that each one is just another film toward the monthly quota of films from that region. Am I wrong?

I shouldn't even bother with you. I'm addressing whether or not Criterion takes risks, you call me out on that, and now you're extolling the virtues of releasing Marienbad and Human Condition. Putting it altogether, I guess you think those are risky releases that I'm failing to acknowledge? Bottom line: can you please try to pick an argument and stick with it without diverging onto something else?

And Antoine, yeah, I'm not denying what you're saying...which is why I commented in response to the original poster who said Criterion takes risks. Even you're admitting in your post that they don't because of all those factors you listed.

TJ, my posts are only a couple sentences long each. I think I've made exactly two points. So, um, yeah, I guess you could call that diverging.

By the way, here's you a year ago, writing off the release of Marienbad:

Thomas J. wrote:In all likelihood, judging from related cultural events, "the problem" won't really reach mass recognition until it's too late (e.g. global warming). I've grown somewhat cynical about it -- and when Criterion announces "Last Year at Marienbad" next month for their monthly French release, I'll continue to laugh out of resignation.

You seem to like to cherry pick things that people say and then pretend that they are supporting your argument. Two can play at that game, pal.

Question I probably shouldn't ask: Thomas J., what is the point of the statistical analysis of the year's releases? And I intend no sarcasm or snarkiness by that question, I am genuinely curious. Is it for informational purposes only, or are you trying to accomplish something contructive. As I said, I'm curious.