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I am totally confused now. I followed that thread Nick started on Blu v. DVD....and I thought that it ended up as: (1) MOC was not going to make Blu/DVD versions of releases (either one or the other) and (2) City Girl was gonna be Blu-Ray only.

Tribe, it looks as though it'll depend on the materials available for each title. If they're good enough for 1080p, it'll either get a Blu-Ray only or a release in both formats; if the transfer won't benefit from Blu or a HD master won't be happening anytime soon, it's DVD only. There's Always Tomorrow might have been a Blu-Ray disc only if the HD master from Universal wasn't lost in the recent fire but I don't want to put words into Nick's mouth. They may well be debating their approaches to upcoming titles still. It's my understanding though that MoC would have preferred to release M exclusively on Blu but that Eureka wanted it on DVD as well.

I thought they decided they were going to release them as seperately available releases, one spine# for the Blu and another for the SD. I think the Blu only decision is very hasty.

HerrSchreck wrote:I thought they decided they were going to release them as seperately available releases, one spine# for the Blu and another for the SD. I think the Blu only decision is very hasty.

I basically agree.
Films (especially of this rarity and stature) getting a blu-only release is just plain wrong.

The economics of this choice confuse me. Nick suggested the SD/BD split on dual titles has been around 50/50. Doesn't this mean losing 50% of sales when going BD-only? I can't imagine owners of Blu-Ray players saying "ah, I think I'll just pick up the DVD on this one", so aren't you only freezing out purchasers who have no other way of seeing the film?

reaky wrote:The economics of this choice confuse me. Nick suggested the SD/BD split on dual titles has been around 50/50. Doesn't this mean losing 50% of sales when going BD-only? I can't imagine owners of Blu-Ray players saying "ah, I think I'll just pick up the DVD on this one", so aren't you only freezing out purchasers who have no other way of seeing the film?

When we issued only DVDs, let's say we sold "1,000 copies" (for the sake of this example).

When we issued a DVD and a Blu-ray, to use the same figures, we'd sell 1,000 DVDs and 1,000 BDs.

By issuing only a Blu-ray, we're losing out on DVD sales, yes, but we're simply going back to a similar set-up we had before where we are freed up to release more films.

What's not being emphasised enough in this debate is what our new release schedule will look like. Instead of, for example, one month releasing one film in 2 formats, we'll be releasing 2 films in one format. Two different films on Blu-ray!

peerpee wrote: Instead of, for example, one month releasing one film in 2 formats, we'll be releasing 2 films in one format. Two different films on Blu-ray!

That's what I feared. If you had only written: two different films, one Blu, one SD....

Some months, that will be the case. The above example was simply that, an example.

For instance:

January 2010 is:
LUBITSCH IN BERLIN - 6xDVD only
HOUSE - DVD only
UNE FEMME MARIEE - BD (the DVD is already available)

February 2010 is:
CITY GIRL on BD only.
M on 2xDVD and BD.
THERE'S ALWAYS TOMORROW on DVD only.

March 2010 is:
A NOS AMOURS - 2xDVD only
SOUS LE SOLEIL DE SATAN - 2xDVD only

peerpee wrote:When we issued only DVDs, let's say we sold "1,000 copies" (for the sake of this example).

When we issued a DVD and a Blu-ray, to use the same figures, we'd sell 1,000 DVDs and 1,000 BDs.

Nick, you mean your entire consumer base doubled at a stroke, the same number of purchasers emerging to pick up a blu-ray who had never bought one of your DVDs before? Incredible. Surely some of those extra sales were motivated by the particular titles in question, splitting the numbers across formats.

Let's just say the BD sales have shown us exactly how depressed the DVD sales are by copying, downloading, and a generally flooded DVD market.

I see your point. A non-bootleggable format has got to be appealing. I would at one time have thought that arthouse films wouldn't suffer from pirating so much, but I remember the - how can I put this - unsavoury individual who came on here and took pleasure in bragging about how he hadn't paid you a penny.

reaky wrote:I see your point. A non-bootleggable format has got to be appealing. I would at one time have thought that arthouse films wouldn't suffer from pirating so much, but I remember the - how can I put this - unsavoury individual who came on here and took pleasure in bragging about how he hadn't paid you a penny.

I recently pointed out a blog to Nick where someone has gone about uploading uncompressed full dvd images of MOC (three at the moment; Naruse, Faust and Shoah), Criterion (About 2 dozen or more films) [etc] discs to rapidshare (in forty 200MB links) as well as a couple more links [for each title] for full high-res Booklet & Cover scans. There are already several replies of thanks for each title. I'd imagine this type of disrespect is really one of the driving forces behind MOC's Blu decision, and seeing the blog angered me enough to think the Blu decision has much justification.

Apart from anything else - Shoah? A less likely title for pirating I can hardly imagine.

Blu-ray is just as easy to pirate as DVD is. That being said, I am very happy with the choice moc have made, and it will definitely increase the rate of my purchases of moc titles.

reaky wrote:

peerpee wrote:When we issued only DVDs, let's say we sold "1,000 copies" (for the sake of this example).

When we issued a DVD and a Blu-ray, to use the same figures, we'd sell 1,000 DVDs and 1,000 BDs.

Nick, you mean your entire consumer base doubled at a stroke, the same number of purchasers emerging to pick up a blu-ray who had never bought one of your DVDs before?

On this hypothetical example, I think it's far more likely that a fair percentage of the Blu-ray buyers were previous MoC customers, many of whom would have bought it on DVD if that were all there was. If so, it's surprising that DVD sales remain constant, suggesting there are new DVD customers as well as new Blu customers.

I commend MoC for being the first to go a "Blu-only" route for some releases, as a similar example Criterion made years ago with their "Laserdisc only" and never issuing videotapes.
It's pretty ballsy as none of the major labels have done that for any of their releases.

But since this is the "City Girl" thread, let's stick to City Girl, and move BD-only discussions to the other existing thread.

There's been talk of a "Download Tax" (an annual sum of £20-£30) being instilled in the UK within the next few years where households will be charged with the sum and given free reign to download what are, right now, considered illegally transferred files with [almost] no blowback from authorities. Whilst this news refers predominantly to music, film has also been mentioned within this plan [if the scheme proves successful with the music industry], and the tax will be portioned off to the "industry" where those hit hardest will have a larger percentage cut. Is the French scheme the 'Three Strikes and You're Out' approach David? This is still an option the UK authorities are considering, even if the download tax is adopted [for excessive downloaders]. It all seems rather hare-brained. I fail to see how smaller labels such as Second Run, MOC, Flicker Alley etc etc are going to be given fair treatment over their losses when the larger companies weigh in with their over-sized estimates, not to mention the rise in downloading when those taxed want to get their money's worth.

I'd like to think the reduced resolution of upped Blu's would put file-sharer's off the concept, but i'd guess this is a pretty insignificant problem when it comes to saving money, and as you say, if one site closes the barriers on rinsing smaller labels, another will open around the corner.

david hare wrote:I dont know how the French tax scheme will go but the fucking country is already taxed to death at point of sale. I can buy blank TDK DVDrs here for 20 cents each - in Paris they're 2 fucking Euros. And retail pressed optical discs are taxed at 20 fucking percent.

The tax scheme won't be able to be enforced. And for the blank DVD-Rs, we just order from Belgium or Luxembourg. They're between 15 and 20 cents each there too.

Changing the subject (or steering it back on topic), I've just got my hands on a checkdisc of City Girl, and while I haven't yet managed to wangle a full 90 minutes on the domestic Blu-ray player yet (later this week, hopefully), I did watch the opening shots, and it looks absolutely magnificent - a definite cut above Sunrise for print/image quality.

That's a very fair impression of what I saw, but it looks even better in motion.

Am I wrong or do I see a slight edge enhancement on the beaver caps? :-k

The Kalat commentary is new, right?

Damn, I wasn't going to buy the Blu-ray since I already have the Murnau box, but Kalat cannot be denied

manicsounds wrote:The Kalat commentary is new, right?

Recorded October 2009, so yup.