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Peacock wrote:Violence at Noon - The drama in this film mainly plays out between three characters and I'm just not sure if the situation is dramatic enough to really involve you.

I don't want to resort to spoilers, but are you sure you saw Violence at Noon? Hopefully it will strike you differently next time. For me it's among the greatest achievements of an incredible decade.

This set should at least give people a sense of just how creative and un-pin-downable Oshima was in the sixties. If you were unimpressed by Senses or Passion, approach these as tabula rasa. Pre-Ai no corrida Oshima is a different beast entirely.

As for the early films, I agree that Night and Fog in Japan has little in common with the previous two films, which much more clearly draw on (and disembowel and cauterize) the genre of 'Sun Tribe' youth films, but it fits historically and biographically because it definitively slams the door shut on Oshima's early period of studio filmmaking at Shochiku. It's the film where he goes too far and effectively reinvents himself as a filmmaker in opposition to the Japanese filmmaking establishment. As such, it's a signal moment for the Japanese New Wave. So I certainly wouldn't complain if it were packaged with the earlier films. As noted above, Criterion would be asking for trouble if they tried to present it without any contextualising extras. in Eclipse format.

The present Eclipse grouping, however, will probably work as a grab bag, even though there's a lot of social and political subtext in the films (Three Resurrected Drunkards maybe most obviously) that might elude unprepared viewers. At least Drunkards is a helluva lotta fun even without the politics.

I guess my only worry is that Criterion will want, from a branding perspective, to release an Oshima Youth Trilogy box, leaving out either A Town of Love and Hope (which I very much doubt will happen, as I can only imagine Criterion releasing it with the better-known Cruel Story/Sun's Burial, which anyways form the trilogy proper) or Night and Fog in Japan (seeing as its cache/notoriety would make it a reasonable candidate for individual release). That said, it is not unheard of for Criterion to release a four-title mainline box (cf Varda), so I'm probably worrying for nothing, and so long as all four titles come out I don't really mind Fog being included with the other three as a capper to Oshima's early period work/evolution as represented by the Youth Trilogy.

I can't imagine Criterion NOT releasing all four films in a single box, preferably titled "Oshima's Cruel Stories of Youth."

Or they could just release the "Oshima Nagisa Youth Trilogy Box Set" with all 4 films in it. Very subversive and not entirely unprecedented....

Actually, does anybody have any idea where this "Youth Trilogy" concept originated? I know critics and DVD labels are trilogy-happy (when they're not "quadrilogy"-happy - and that has to be one of the dumbest neologisms around), but I've never heard of this particular appellation until recently (unless my mind's going). Oshima's first four features sort of fit together historically, but the middle two films are much more closely related than the other ones, and it seems hard to propose any neat overarching concept that convincingly accommodates three of them but not the fourth - and which doesn't threaten to drag in other random Oshimas: Night and Fog in Japan seems a lot closer to Diary of a Shinjuku Thief or The Ceremony in many respects.

Sanjuro wrote:Or they could just release the "Oshima Nagisa Youth Trilogy Box Set" with all 4 films in it. Very subversive and not entirely unprecedented....

I know that the best trilogies are 4 films ones, but isn't the Youth Trilogy only made of A Town Of Love And Hope, Cruel Story Of The Youth and The Sun's Burial ?

That's how they have been released by Carlotta in France, Night And Fog In Japan being released as a single movie, so I'm wondering right now. :-k

I just noticed that the Shochiku website has trailers for many Japanese films.
10 Oshimas, including the first three titles in this eclipse set.
Over a dozen Yamadas, a handful of Nomuras, several dozen Kinoshitas, etc.

I was pleasantly surprised that The Yellow Handkerchief trailer even had English subs (another film I checked didn't).
Though I also see that some, such as Oshima's Sinner in Paradise and Night of the Killer don't have trailers.

A nice way to get a glimpse of some Japanese films.
I'm putting this here because this thread is currently the most active for a Japanese director.
Maybe this post can be added to some other relevant threads, if others find it useful.

Also, this page at the Shochiku site has a lot more trailers, including recent Japanese films through to trailers for all 6 parts of The Human Condition (it's 3 films each divided into 2 parts).
And now I really want to see X From Outer Space.

All of the INCREDIBLE BARGAIN posts have been moved here.

Is this the first time eclipse has gone dual layered?

knives wrote:Is this the first time eclipse has gone dual layered?

Not at all. The Late Ozu are all dual layered, most of the Rossellini from the Renaissance box too. 2 out of 3 George Bernard Shaw are, etc etc.

Wow. Those screen captures actually gave me some goosebumps. I have been waiting to watch Violence at Noon and Three Resurrected Drunkards for a long while in anticipation of this set, despite them being on my mind a lot, due to the expectation of such high quality presentations. My wish = granted.

This set looks absolutely fantastic. Of Oshima's films, I've only seen In the Realm of the Senses, a film I was expecting to be repulsed by but actually found extremely interesting and enjoyable. I loved his visual style in that film, and it looks to be more to be found in this set. It shipped this morning from Amazon!

NY Times review.

Steven H wrote:Wow. Those screen captures actually gave me some goosebumps. I have been waiting to watch Violence at Noon and Three Resurrected Drunkards for a long while in anticipation of this set, despite them being on my mind a lot, due to the expectation of such high quality presentations. My wish = granted.

Seconded. The leap in quality between this rendering of Three Resurrected Drunkards and how I've seen it up until now is hair-raising. I can't wait to see it again for the first time.

I got my set through this morning and it really is a giant leap ahead of the Yume releases (of Pleasures of the Flesh and Violence at (High) Noon). The picture quality is superb, and short of going Blu, i'm not sure these could look much better than they are presented here (based on a very quick skim through of each disc). I can't wait to get going with these, particularly with Pleasures of the Flesh (my personal Oshima favourite that I have seen) in particular looking so good. Great stuff =D>

Cracked into the Eclipse set that occupies a third of the forum's DVD collection tonite and man, that great deal seems all the greater now. Pleasures of the Flesh works on so many delightful levels. On basic story and plotting alone it's fascinating, with a terrific premise lifted from a filthy noir paperback. The cinematography, with its wildly incongruous framings, is beautiful to look at and the blocking exploits wonderful moments, like the sudden extreme close-up of Nakumura's head against a wooden doorframe, or the cascade of books that falls on Higuchi after being assaulted.

But surely the finest thing operating here is the sexual politics, and what an interesting examination of the commoditization of women by men this is! The film provides an exhaustive case against so-called "nice guys," those men who do everything for a girl and then act as though they are owed a relationship in return. The entitlement tied to nice guy fawning is given a welcome workout in the film. Every turn the main character takes becomes more and more pathetic as he lowers his expectations and receives the appropriate diminished returns. You know he's slinking badly when his last lover, a relationship bordering on a Real Doll experience, isn't his lowest point in the film! And based on his experiences in the film, what more did he expect from that final reunion than to be greeted with the very image of material womanhood he'd been promulgating with his stacks of bills and sexual contracts?

I'm glad you loved Pleasures of the Flesh. It's interesting not solely because of the nice guy perspective, but how Nakamura's character is emblematic of Japanese society at the time. The film seems to be almost purposely made to defy Ozu's classic relationships where modest women seem to fall in love with very gentle, kind-hearted men or fall into an arranged marriage. Instead, this man falls under the pressure and societal boundaries that were considered the norm in Japanese culture and society in the mid-sixties.

It's also a great way to show the difference between obsession and love. We can't really say that the relationship he has with this girl he's obsessed with isn't really love. It's perverse and crazy idea of what he has of her in his head, and when she appears at the very end as someone completely different, you can see his soul being crushed.

I never understood why David Desser in his book on the Japanese New Wave, Eros Plus Massacre, he credits Pleasures of the Flesh with being a minor work by Oshima. I always though it was among his strongest and beautifully disturbing.

Briefly checking my discs, I was surprised to find that Violence at Noon (the only film in the set I haven't seen before) was not as "choppy" as advertised. You hear all about the "More Than TWO THOUSAND CUTS!" over and over in descriptions about this film, but the editing actually is more seamless than I anticipated. Going by word of mouth, one might have expected something like Breathless or *shudder* the editing abomination that was Quantum of Solace but Oshima still knows how long to hold a shot before pulling away. Some scenes of course are more rapidly cut than others, but this isn't as glibly disorienting as I thought (and feared).

Got my set today and watched Pleasures of the Flesh. It was my first taste of Oshima, and, whilst I enjoyed it very much, I missed a lot (almost all) of what Domino picked up on solely because of how engrossed I became in the pulpy plot. I suppose that's not a bad thing at all, and certainly gives me more than enough reason for another viewing in the near future.

Too, I was blown away by the transfer quality.

Finished Violence at Noon last night/early morning. Having seen all of it now, I DEFINITELY believe the "More than TWO THOUSAND CUTS" tagline that critics are using in describing this film has been vastly oversold. Reading some of the early reviews for this online, you would think that VaN was some disorienting music video. But it doesn't play that way. By today's mainstream standards, the editing is actually downright stately. I'm quite sure the average Hollywood blockbuster today probably has at least 500 more cuts per the same length of running time.

The other thing about VaN is that it isn't really a "serial killer/rapist film" or even really a "crime film." I think a lot of people come into this with preconceived notions and come away disappointed because most of the film is really about the interior thoughts and memories of two women rather than some shock fest a la Natural Born Killers (that's the impression I get from most viewers who come away from this film rather bored). Eisuke isn't really the focus here--he's more of a force of nature, or a bogeyman, or a human representation of an id. He's a fulcrum used to explore the thoughts, desires and fallacies of these women.

What's interesting about VaN is that despite the concept sounding like just another "misogynistic" Oshima film, I actually came away from it with the impression that it's the most, well, not really empowering (it is Oshima, after all), but most "engaged" Oshima film about female identity and individuality I've seen from him so far, because Oshima is completely and utterly disinterested in the males here. They're just props and devices used to explore the female characters of the film.

I think the 2000 cuts statement would hold more weight if it were emphasised that Oshima was adverse to such stylistic cutting in his past work, with the longer Night and Fog in Japan running up a total of only 43 cuts in its 107 minute runtime for example. As it is, it's a bit redundant when, as you say jojo, the average Hollywood flick these days has more often than not well in excess of 2000 cuts. Editor Walter Murch claimed in the documentary The Cutting Edge: The Magic of Movie Editing that the average 2 hour film these days would have around 5000 cuts or shots (although that does seem a little excessive to me).

jojo wrote:What's interesting about VaN is that despite the concept sounding like just another "misogynistic" Oshima film

I think Oshima's a feminist director, all of his films portray the women as intelligent, self aware but ultimately a victim because of traditional Japanese values. Why do you think his films are misogynist?

Perhaps his others films are, but I've only seen Pleasures of the Flesh and indeed one of its great strengths is that it never becomes misogynistic-- which is really a feat considering the material! Oshima presents the mindset of the main character without ever sharing it. He's not saying treating female sexuality as a commodity to be bought and paid for by males is a good thing... I think the reunion at the end makes that pretty clear!