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Even they wouldn't be that shortsighted I would think.

mfunk9786 wrote:That doesn't mean that Criterion didn't upconvert it.

It probably does, as it'd be an almost pointless exercise, although we'll have to wait for the finished disc to check.

RossyG wrote:

mfunk9786 wrote:That doesn't mean that Criterion didn't upconvert it.

It probably does, as it'd be an almost pointless exercise, although we'll have to wait for the finished disc to check.

They upconvert old video extras when they do blu-ray remasters, so I don't see why they wouldn't upconvert that movie. I don't think there's ever been a Criterion BR with Standard def content (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

Well, I hope they don't. Cathy Come Home should not be considered as a movie; it's a vintage TV programme. It was part of the Wednesday Play strand and exists either as a video or a telecine recording. Upconverting would do very little to its picture quality.

It shouldn't be too much. The Once Upon a Time in America disc runs about that long for example.

I think Knives is replying to a post I deleted, asking whether an upconverted Cathy and South Bank Show would eat up too much bitrate.

The Eastman House showed a 16mm print of Cathy Come Home a few years ago. Supposedly only about 10 minutes of the film was shot in studio on electronic cameras to kinescope and then spliced into the print. Are we certain that BBC didn't retain any of the archival 16mm materials? If they did, the vast majority of the film would certainly benefit from and HD upgrade. Even the kinescope portion could theoretically benefit since the image on the video monitors was captured on film and an HD transfer would show more detail of what the film captured.

This is now available on netflix for those of you, who like me, can't wait.

I watched it on netflix last weekend, and am considering picking up the Criterion just to have access to subtitles. There are times where it's quite difficult to understand the characters' thick Yorkshire accents.

The film was great, with several tour-de-force sequences (two highlights: the soccer match and the scene in which Billy tells the class about training Kes). I was especially struck by the idyllic quality of his jaunts through the countryside and training sessions w/Kes. However, Loach tends to frame the shots with a low horizon line, and all too often you can see the factories looming in the background. Regardless of his asshole brother's actions, the film strongly implies that the factories are in Billy's future, and man is that depressing.

Billy's tenderness in training and feeding Kes is in stark contrast to the harshness and outright bullying by those responsible for his education, while his concern for the kestrel contrasts with his mother's general indifference. In the former case, the physical education teacher is such a loser, such a frustrated athlete that the soccer match is already hilarious, only to turn horrifying when he holds Billy responsible for "Man U's" loss. Some of the other teachers and school bullies are so bad that the headmaster actually appears reasonable by comparison, since he only whips the kids' hands with a switch. Harsh fucking conditions; the one kind teacher doesn't stand a chance in that town, either. One feels that this environment will crush Billy's basic humanity by the time he's eighteen. This film is powerful, but it left me with a feeling of rage--I think I spent the next day fantasizing about walking around the town and beating the living hell out of Billy's tormentors.

jbeall wrote:This film is powerful, but it left me with a feeling of rage--I think I spent the next day fantasizing about walking around the town and beating the living hell out of Billy's tormentors.

Wait till you see Family Life!

zedz wrote:Wait till you see Family Life!

Hmmm, doesn't seem to be available stateside. I guess I'll have to pick it up next time I order from amazon.uk.

This is a great introduction to Kes by actor David Morrissey, who describes the influence the film has had on him (and I like the connection he makes between Kes and Sweet Sixteen). It's spoiler free as well.

jbeall wrote:...all too often you can see the factories looming in the background. Regardless of his asshole brother's actions, the film strongly implies that the factories are in Billy's future, and man is that depressing.

That is the aspect that actually dates the film (and makes it a valuable time capsule) - now in many of those towns there's not even the prospect of backbreaking, soul crushing, dangerous employment...nowt. That's why later, crowd pleasing films like The Full Monty or Billy Elliot have to push into practice over-idealised, individualistic schemes which end up acting as poor substitutes for an entire community losing its reason for being, no matter how brutally that community could act towards its black sheep. Now lives aren't snuffed out because they're a betrayal but because you didn't have the 'get up and go' to make something (e.g. a career, nothing else appears to count) of yourself, no matter how limited your circumstances, so are written off as a failure on a much more personalised basis.

knives wrote:

Matango wrote:Some would say Cathy Come Home is even better than Kes

I would hope not. Cathy Come Home came across to me as simply a reasonably done version of the style that was enormously popular in England at the time. Nothing to get the heart racing.

I'm sorry to revive this argument, but I've only just seen this post, and while you're more than entitled to your opinion, you're trying to justify it by means of some rather glaring historical errors and misapprehensions.

First of all, the heyday of "kitchen sink drama", at least as far as the cinema was concerned, was 1958 to 63 - essentially from Room at the Top to This Sporting Life, after which British cinema was mainly synonymous with James Bond, The Beatles and the Swinging Sixties. By mid-November 1966, when Cathy Come Home was broadcast, social realism was anything but "enormously popular in England" - in fact, it had largely vanished from the big screen.

Secondly, far from being any kind of throwback, Cathy was highly innovative. From about 1963-4 onwards a small group of young directors (who included Ken Russell and Peter Watkins), mostly in their twenties or early thirties, had been trying to break away from what they saw as the stifling theatricality of the television play - which in most cases was essentially a stage play broadcast live. Taking advantage of new technology (especially lightweight, self-blimped 16mm cameras) and inspiration from the independent-minded Free Cinema movement of the late 1950s, they began openly experimenting with new forms of television drama - good examples are Peter Watkins' Culloden (1964) and Ken Russell's The Debussy Film (1965).

Cathy isn't as formally original or experimental as those two, but its fusion of drama and documentary was very unusual at the time - not to say controversial. Many of its most emotive scenes were shot on location in front of passers-by who had no idea that they were witnessing a fictional drama being filmed - and the play was broadcast at a time when the British media was widely engaged in presenting an internationally appealing image of the UK as being a Dayglo fantasy land. As a result, Cathy's graphic exposure of homelessness in the middle of what was supposed to be such plenty had a disproportionately huge impact - and while it's not actually true that homeless charity Shelter was formed as a direct result of Cathy Come Home's broadcast, its coincidental launch a few days later didn't exactly hurt.

So while it may not have set your own heart racing, it's hands down one of the most important British television plays of the 1960s, for a great many different reasons. It's also arguably the first authentic "Ken Loach film", in that while it wasn't his first feature-length project, it was the first in which he achieved everything that he set out to achieve in a style with which he would quickly become indelibly associated.

Okay, you're perfectly right on historical context, something I'll admit to ignorance on, but historical importance doesn't represent quality. Hopefully we can agree on that. I found the quality of Cathy Come Home lacking.

Beaver compares the PAL DVD with the Criterion BR.

I would believe it if someone tells me it's a new movie.

I became addicted to these MGM/Criterion transfers. Flawless.

I love how the grass goes from wintertime-dead in the MGM to springtime-fresh in the Criterion.

med wrote:I love how the grass goes from wintertime-dead in the MGM to springtime-fresh in the Criterion.

With all the coal dust in Yorkshire, the MGM grass might be more authentic.

If your sitting on the fence about a blind buy, remember that Kes has the Karl Pilkington seal of approval. Maybe CC can come up with a Round Headed Buffoon Approved sticker.

Ah yes: Kes, The Elephant Man, and Mission Impossible II.

and a better look at the Karl approved sticker

dwk wrote:

I LOVE IT! Thank you. This made my day.

I'm really looking forward to seeing Kes...one of my closest friends is a bird trainer and we'll be watching it together with her Eurasian kestrel in attendance.

LQ wrote:I'm really looking forward to seeing Kes...one of my closest friends is a bird trainer and we'll be watching it together with her Eurasian kestrel in attendance.

Dare we look forward to a "LQ's Friend's Kestrel Seal of Approval"?

I'm surprised at the seal of approval! I haven't heard about it being one of his favourite films - from watching some of those shows, Mr Pilkington doesn't usually seem particularly fond of (or more precisely doesn't appear to see the use for) any animals kept as pets. Although presumably that feeds into why he appreciates Kes? :-k

I really don't want to spoil the film for LQ but I'm quite frightened at the emotionally wrenching experiencing in store for her and her friend, not to mention the trauma the kestrel might go through if it is paying attention to the screen! Do you have one of those hoods ready to put over its head, just in case it all gets too much?