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andyli wrote:Beaver.

Supercalafragalisticexpialidotiously-stunning... but it's not in color... and has black bars!!! No sale... \:D/

Good lord! Has anybody here ever seen a Ray film look that good?

It really looks spectacular all things considered. Really shocked as to how well it turned out.

zedz wrote:Good lord! Has anybody here ever seen a Ray film look that good?

Assuming it looks just as impressive in motion, I've seen 1980s Ray films on their original release that didn't look that good!

This was done on a new, expensive piece of equipment called the Phoenix Finish which Criterion also used for Kes, and the upcoming The Killing (so expect that to look great as well). What's so special with The Music Room is that Indian films tend to only exist in battered prints etc, and even though this was restored by The Film Foundation (or whoever it was), it looks so much better than I expected. Almost 3D!

More here on the Phoenix Finish.

I hope every release is being done with this Phoenix Finish from now on, at lease every new release, please!

So far they've reserved it for big projects that were previously restored by The Film Foundation and I doubt that will change anytime soon. That said I'm sure once it becomes more cost effective they'll do it more and more often like in the case of their Blu-rays..

I saw this in a print a few years ago. It didn't look as horrendous as that dvd, but nor was it as good as the bluray looks.

from the article it appears that the Phoenix option is used when their initial evaluation suggests that their other tools are inadequete. I imagine it has a massive processing time that makes it impossible to use on every title (unless you want them to slow down their output?).

However, This may open the door to Life of Oharu and Story of the Last Chrysanthemum and other films with shit prints and/or disappointing negs.

Life of Oharu seems reasonably well confirmed (if people are reading that 2012 picture correctly). It's definitely an exciting thought, that they can rescue prints that just had flat out weak sources now- if they could improve The Music Room this much, maybe we can finally get a decent looking Scarlet Empress.

I've always been confused about The Scarlet Empress... I mean, the European dvds all look pretty good, much better than the Criterion anyway, so i'd presume prints exist which aren't in horrible shape. Certainly nothing to compare with some of the early Mizoguchi's...

What about the Jean Vigo set? That seems to warrant the creation of high quality new transfers?

Been longing to see the 1984 Ray documentary, and the picture quality is just wow. I was actually looking for scratches on many of those caps. Unbelievable.

zedz wrote:Good lord! Has anybody here ever seen a Ray film look that good?

Never, not even on initial release! Good lord, indeed.

I hope this means future Ray releases will look at least half as good. If so, we're going to get a huge jump in picture quality. I wasn't a huge fan of The Music Room when I first saw it, but it looks like a reevaluation will be a must.

andyli wrote:I hope every release is being done with this Phoenix Finish from now on, at lease every new release, please!

If it's a title destined for the mainline and/or guaranteed to sell (or shine compared to any previous home video release), sure. "Ken" isn't setting the world of fire saleswise but it got the Phoenix treatment along with a Kubrickl and Ray classic film. If the movie you want has weak elements and is someone-at-Criterion's-pet-project then you'll be in luck. Unless it's an A-grade title though the movies that would need Phoenix the most are probably Eclipse-bound, battered-within-an-inch-of-non-existence, second-tier work and won't get a pass through it.

Sorry, capitalism (and being left out of Phoenix consideration) sucks but the alternatives (not getting to see these flicks even on crappy prints) suck even more.

no need to get one's panties in a twist over the exigencies of capitalism. Storage, memory and processors all come down in price quite regularly. It's entirely possible that Criterion could triple their system power/server farm/storage that Phoenix uses one year after purchasing it for the price of the kit from the year before. Of course there's also the expense of licensing Phoenix, and probably having to buy/rent the latest and greatest version of the software, so that may lead to them only doubling their system rather than tripling it.

And we're making a pretty nasty assumption that one has to use the Phoenix on everything. I think they got amazing results out of Yojimbo or Seventh Seal without needing the phoenix. Their current workflow has resulted in stunning hi-def quality across the board and this is not really a step up, rather it is a sideways expansion that enables them much greater latitude in the quality of source materials that will economically yield a HD master to their standards\.

dad1153 wrote:"Ken" isn't setting the world of fire saleswise but it got the Phoenix treatment along with a Kubrickl and Ray classic film.

Tom Hagen wrote:

dad1153 wrote:"Ken" isn't setting the world of fire saleswise but it got the Phoenix treatment along with a Kubrickl and Ray classic film.

Before Ken sets the world on fire he'll have to start with his wardrobe.

Tom Hagen wrote:

dad1153 wrote:"Ken" isn't setting the world of fire saleswise but it got the Phoenix treatment along with a Kubrickl and Ray classic film.

LOL! Sorry. :-p

I love how quoting has caused that album cover to appear not once, but three times in this thread.

This is the Music Room, after all.

andyli wrote:Beaver. Sublime.

My God. It's Beautiful.

Got their last Blu-ray copy of "Music Room" at the nearest B&N here in Gotham (plenty of DVD copies left). Question for those that have seen it: does the '84 documentary on Ray have a lot of clips from his body of work that would spoil big-time key plot points or dramatic moments (especially the Apu trilogy)? Or do the clips highlight his work without spoiling his movies? It's the meatiest extra in "Music Room" but I'm afraid that, since it'll be my first exposure to Ray's work, seeing it might turn me off from seeking more of his work (even if Criterion releases it) because I already know 'the twist' or 'the moment' from seeing them. It's the reason I haven't seen "Bergman Island" yet on my BD of "Seventh Seal."

I watched the DVD last night (I can't play the Blu-ray), and it's probably worth warning people that anyone expecting the near-pristine picture that those framegrabs imply might be a little disappointed. As with all 1950s Ray transfers, there's still lots of damage, instability, some excessively contrasty shots, you name it - all of which is inherent in the original, notoriously poorly-preserved materials and which is therefore unavoidable. I also suspect that these problems will be amplified by the Blu-ray.

That said, it's a very significant improvement on all other Ray releases that I've seen (Mr Bongo's Company Limited is the only one I can think of that's anywhere near the same class), and I commend Criterion for not going too far with regard to the digital cleanup - it's clear that they've stopped before the point when it would have interfered with the integrity of the image, and they made the right decision.

I also absolutely accept that this is probably the best that Criterion, or indeed anyone, could have done with material like this - and I've certainly never seen the film looking this good before.