V for Vendetta (James McTeigue, 2005)

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Fletch F. Fletch
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#26 Post by Fletch F. Fletch »

Annie Mall wrote:
Fletch F. Fletch wrote:The new movie poster is online:

http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=21841
It reminds me of old russian propaganda posters which I think it's completely intentional.

If only the Wachowskis could sort out the way for their films to be more politically active and less target audience orientated, they would be something very powerful indeed. Maybe that's their goal in the long run, after all. We'll see how this one turns out.
Yeah, if they remain faithful to the original graphic novel maybe it will be but I dunno. The trailer certainly places an emphasis on slam-bang action but it could be misleading. God knows there are tons of trailers out there that completely misrepresent their films.

But the poster is very striking and I liked that they moved away from the traditional kinds for something a little different.
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ogtec
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#27 Post by ogtec »

But, as has been pointed out elsewhere the original creators have had their credits entirely removed. Not just Alan Moore (as per his request), but David Lloyd as well.

Instead, the publisher gets a namecheck......
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Fletch F. Fletch
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#28 Post by Fletch F. Fletch »

ogtec wrote:But, as has been pointed out elsewhere the original creators have had their credits entirely removed. Not just Alan Moore (as per his request), but David Lloyd as well.

Instead, the publisher gets a namecheck......
Yeah, that's par for the course for Moore who's disowned all the cinematic adaptations of his work. I think he still refuses to watch League of Extraordinary Gentlemen...
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The Invunche
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#29 Post by The Invunche »

Can't blame him for that.
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Fletch F. Fletch
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#30 Post by Fletch F. Fletch »

The Invunche wrote:Can't blame him for that.
Oh, I know! From Hell and League both sucked -- not even remotely close to the source material. Of course, adapting From Hell and squeezing it into a coherent 2 hr. movie is impossible. Would've been so much better as a mini-series. As for League... blech, the less said about that atrocity the better. God, they messed that one up.
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Lino
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#31 Post by Lino »

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Cobalt60
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#32 Post by Cobalt60 »

Annie Mall wrote:See more posters here:

http://www.beyondhollywood.com/news/?p=126

I gotta say thats a pretty decent looking group of posters.
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Fletch F. Fletch
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#33 Post by Fletch F. Fletch »

che-etienne
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#34 Post by che-etienne »

...and I'm still skeptical. It just seems to be a little to didactic, but we'll have to wait and see I guess. I'll take anything with Hugo Weaving in it with an open mind anyway.
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Fletch F. Fletch
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#35 Post by Fletch F. Fletch »

che-etienne wrote:...and I'm still skeptical. It just seems to be a little to didactic, but we'll have to wait and see I guess. I'll take anything with Hugo Weaving in it with an open mind anyway.
Yeah... I am remaining very skeptical as well considering how badly Hollywood as butchered Moore's work so far. However, there has been some promising advanced reviews posted on Ain't-It-Cool-News recently that seem to suggest that the action-packed trailers are misleading and that the film is very scathing politically, going after the Bush and Blair regimes.
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Fletch F. Fletch
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#36 Post by Fletch F. Fletch »

An interview with Hugo Weaving about the movie:

http://suicidegirls.com/words/Hugo+Weaving/
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Fletch F. Fletch
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#37 Post by Fletch F. Fletch »

NoGoodBoyo
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#38 Post by NoGoodBoyo »

James Wolcott has a blog post on a pre-screening.

http://jameswolcott.com/archives/2006/0 ... nd_the.php
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Len
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#39 Post by Len »

David Lloyd loved it:
Daniel Robert Epstein: Did you like the V for Vendetta movie?
David Lloyd: Yeah. The movie's great.
http://suicidegirls.com/words/V+for+Ven ... vid+Lloyd/

(Suicidegirls interview, so clicking on the link is not recommended if you're at work or something)


I'm really looking forward to seeing this now.
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chaddoli
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#40 Post by chaddoli »

Saw this on Thursday.

No in depth review or anything, but simply: it had some pretty cool parts but overall it was a disappointment. I haven't read the book but I have a feeling hardcore fans will feel the same.
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Fletch F. Fletch
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#41 Post by Fletch F. Fletch »

Here's an article from the New York Times regarding Alan Moore's feud with DC Comics and his distaste for the movie adaptations of his works:
The Vendetta Behind 'V for Vendetta'
By DAVE ITZKOFF. March 12, 2006

THE most vivid characters in Alan Moore's graphic novels are antiheroes of ambiguous morality and identity: costumed avengers like Rorschach, the disturbed street vigilante of "Watchmen," or the crusader known only by the letter V, who commits catastrophic acts of terrorism in the dystopian tale "V for Vendetta."

With inventions like these, and a body of writing that spans nearly three decades, Mr. Moore, a 52-year-old native of Northampton, England, distinguished himself as a darkly philosophical voice in the medium of comic books — a rare talent whose work can sell solely on the strength of his name. But if Mr. Moore had his way today, his name would no longer appear on almost any of the graphic novels with which he is most closely associated. "I don't want anything more to do with these works," he said in a recent telephone interview, "because they were stolen from me — knowingly stolen from me."

In Mr. Moore's account of his career, the villains are clearly defined: they are the mainstream comics industry — particularly DC Comics, the American publisher of "Watchmen" and "V for Vendetta" — which he believes has hijacked the properties he created, and the American film business, which has distorted his writing beyond recognition. To him, the movie adaptation of "V for Vendetta," which opens on Friday, is not the biggest platform yet for his ideas: it is further proof that Hollywood should be avoided at all costs. "I've read the screenplay," Mr. Moore said. "It's rubbish."

Mr. Moore has never been shy about expressing himself. With "Watchmen," a multilayered epic from 1986-87 (illustrated by Dave Gibbons) about a team of superheroes in an era of rampant crime and nuclear paranoia — and again with "V for Vendetta" (illustrated by David Lloyd), published in America in 1988-89, about an enigmatic freedom fighter opposing a totalitarian British regime — Mr. Moore helped prove that graphic novels could be a vehicle for sophisticated storytelling. "Alan was one of the first writers of our generation, of great courage and great literary skill," said Paul Levitz, the president and publisher of DC Comics. "You could watch him stretching the boundaries of the medium."

But by 1989, Mr. Moore had severed his ties with DC. The publisher says he objected to its decision to label its adult-themed comics (including some of his own) as "Suggested for Mature Readers." Mr. Moore says he was objecting to language in his contracts that would give him back the rights to "Watchmen" and "V for Vendetta" when they went out of print — language that he says turned out to be meaningless, because DC never intended to stop reprinting either book. "I said, 'Fair enough,' " he recalls. " 'You have managed to successfully swindle me, and so I will never work for you again.' "

Mr. Levitz said that such so-called reversion clauses routinely appear in comic book contracts, and that DC has honored all of its obligations to Mr. Moore. "I don't think Alan was dissatisfied at the time," Mr. Levitz said. "I think he was dissatisfied several years later."

Mr. Lloyd, the illustrator of "V for Vendetta," also found it difficult to sympathize with Mr. Moore's protests. When he and Mr. Moore sold their film rights to the graphic novel, Mr. Lloyd said: "We didn't do it innocently. Neither myself nor Alan thought we were signing it over to a board of trustees who would look after it like it was the Dead Sea Scrolls."

Mr. Moore recognizes that his senses of justice and proportion may seem overdeveloped. "It is important to me that I should be able to do whatever I want," he said. "I was kind of a selfish child, who always wanted things his way, and I've kind of taken that over into my relationship with the world."

Today, he resides in the sort of home that every gothic adolescent dreams of, one furnished with a library of rare books, antique gold-adorned wands and a painting of the mystical Enochian tables used by Dr. John Dee, the court astrologer of Queen Elizabeth I. He shuns comic-book conventions, never travels outside England and is a firm believer in magic as a "science of consciousness." "I am what Harry Potter grew up into," he said, "and it's not a pretty sight."

Actually, he more closely resembles the boy-wizard's half-giant friend Hagrid, with his bushy, feral beard and intense gaze, but those closest to Mr. Moore say his intimidating exterior is deceptive. "Because he looks like a wild man, people assume that he must be one," said the artist Melinda Gebbie, Mr. Moore's fiancée and longtime collaborator. "He's frightening to people because he doesn't seem to take the carrot, and he's fighting to maintain an integrity that they don't understand."

After he left DC Comics, he spent the 1990's working his way from one independent publisher to the next, ultimately arriving at Wildstorm Studios, owned by the comics artist Jim Lee. There, Mr. Moore was given his own imprint, called America's Best Comics, where he continued to write such pioneering and popular titles as "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen," about a proto-superhero team of Victorian literary characters including Allan Quatermain, Captain Nemo and the Invisible Man.

DC Comics purchased Wildstorm, in 1998, expecting that Mr. Moore would not tolerate the arrangement. "We did the deal on the assumption that Alan would be gone the day it was signed," said Mr. Levitz. But Mr. Moore's loyalty to his artists trumped his aversion to his former employers, and he stayed put. "It seemed easier to bite the bullet meself," he said.

In 2001, the first film adaptation of one of Mr. Moore's graphic novels arrived in theaters. "From Hell," distributed by 20th Century Fox, was based on his extensively researched account of the Jack the Ripper murders, a 572-page black-and-white title illustrated by Eddie Campbell. Mr. Moore had no creative participation in the film, and happily so. "There was no way that I would be able to be fair to it," he said. "I did not wish to be connected with it, and regarded it as something separate to my work. In retrospect, this was kind of a naïve attitude."

Two years later, when 20th Century Fox released a movie version of "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen," the screenwriter Larry Cohen and the producer Martin Poll sued the studio, charging that elements of the film had been plagiarized from their work. Though the film, which was one of the year's costliest flops, differed drastically from the graphic novel, the lawsuit nonetheless claimed that the "Extraordinary Gentlemen" comics had been created as a "smokescreen" to cover up the theft.

Mr. Moore found the accusations deeply insulting, and the 10 hours of testimony he was compelled to give, via video link, even more so. "If I had raped and murdered a schoolbus full of retarded children after selling them heroin," he said, "I doubt that I would have been cross-examined for 10 hours." When the case was settled out of court, Mr. Moore took it as an especially bitter blow, believing that he had been denied the chance to exonerate himself.

Since then, he has refused to allow any more movies to be made from work he controls. In the case of work whose rights he does not control, he has refused credits on any film adaptations, and has given his share of option money and royalties to the artists who illustrated the original comic books. That position is so radical that though his colleagues say they respect his position, few in the film industry can understand it.

"It's very simple, but they don't seem to hear it," said John O'Neill, the illustrator of "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen." "They just gravitate towards offering more money."

Last year, when Mr. Moore received a phone call from Larry Wachowski — who, with his brother, Andy, had written and directed the "Matrix" movies — to discuss the "V for Vendetta" film that the Wachowskis were writing and producing for Warner Brothers, Mr. Moore felt he had made it clear that he did not want to be involved in the project.

"I explained to him that I'd had some bad experiences in Hollywood," Mr. Moore said. "I didn't want any input in it, didn't want to see it and didn't want to meet him to have coffee and talk about ideas for the film."

But at a press conference on March 4, 2005, to announce the start of production on the "V for Vendetta" film, the producer Joel Silver said Mr. Moore was "very excited about what Larry had to say and Larry sent the script, so we hope to see him sometime before we're in the U.K." This, Mr. Moore said, "was a flat lie."

"Given that I'd already published statements saying I wasn't interested in the film, it actually made me look duplicitous," he said.

In a telephone interview, Mr. Silver said he had misconstrued a meeting he had with Mr. Moore and Dave Gibbons nearly 20 years ago, when Mr. Silver first acquired the film rights to "Watchmen" and "V for Vendetta." (Mr. Silver no longer owns the rights to "Watchmen," though Warner Brothers is still planning an adaptation.) "I had a nice little lunch with them," he said, "and Alan was odd, but he was enthusiastic and encouraging us to do this. I had foolishly thought that he would continue feeling that way today, not realizing that he wouldn't."

Mr. Silver said he called Mr. Moore to apologize for his statement at the press conference, but that Mr. Moore was unmoved. "He said to me, 'I'm going to hang up on you if you don't stop talking to me,' " Mr. Silver recalled. "It was like a conversation with a tape recording."

Through his editors at DC Comics (like Warner Brothers, a subsidiary of Time Warner), Mr. Moore insisted that the studio publicly retract Mr. Silver's remarks. When no retraction was made, Mr. Moore once again quit his association with DC (and Wildstorm along with it), and demanded that his name be removed from the "V for Vendetta" film, as well as from any of his work that DC might reprint in the future.

The producers of "V for Vendetta" reluctantly agreed to strip Mr. Moore's name from the film's credits, a move that saddened Mr. Lloyd, who still endorses the film. "Alan and I were like Laurel and Hardy when we worked on that," Mr. Lloyd said. "We clicked. I felt bad about not seeing a credit for that team preserved, but there you go."

DC, however, said it would be inappropriate to take Mr. Moore's name off of any of his works. "This isn't an adaptation of the work, it's not a derivative work, it's not a work that's been changed in any fashion from how he was happy with it a minute ago," said Mr. Levitz.

Still, some DC editors hope that Mr. Moore might return. "He remains a good friend, and I would work with him again in a heartbeat," said Karen Berger, the executive editor of the DC imprint Vertigo, in an e-mail statement.

But Mr. Moore does not seem likely to change his mind this time. For one thing, his schedule is almost entirely consumed with other comics projects, including a new volume of "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen," to be released in late 2006 or early 2007 by the American publisher Top Shelf Productions. This summer, Mr. Moore said, Top Shelf will also be publishing "Lost Girls," his 16-years-in-the-making collaboration with Ms. Gebbie, a series of unrepentantly pornographic adventures told by the grown-up incarnations of Wendy Darling of "Peter Pan," Alice of "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland" and Dorothy Gale of "The Wizard of Oz." "I refuse to call it erotica, because that just sounds like pornography for people who've got more money," Mr. Moore said. "It would seem to be possible to come up with a kind of pornography that was meaningful and beautiful, not ugly."

Ms. Gebbie said she was more excited to see Mr. Moore finish his novel "Jerusalem," another years-long project that he estimates will total 750 pages when complete. "It's his story, his heritage, his blood ties and his amazing, wonderful system of beliefs," Ms. Gebbie said. "This book for him is an unfolding of his real, deep self."

But Mr. Moore suggested that his comic-book writing has already defined his identity. He recalled an encounter with a fan who asked him to sign a horrific issue of his 1980's comic "The Saga of the Swamp Thing"; the admirer then disclosed that he was a special effects designer for the television series "CSI: NY." "Every time you've got an ice pick going into someone's brain, and the close-ups of the little spurting ruptured blood vessels, and that horrible squishing sound, that's him," Mr. Moore said. "So that's something I can be proud of. This is my legacy."
nredding2
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#42 Post by nredding2 »

David Denby of the New Yorker doesn't like it.

http://www.newyorker.com/critics/cinema ... rci_cinema
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The Invunche
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#43 Post by The Invunche »

WTF? I was buying a lot of the stuff Moore was doing at ABC (WildStorm, DC).
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Fletch F. Fletch
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#44 Post by Fletch F. Fletch »

The Invunche wrote:WTF? I was buying a lot of the stuff Moore was doing at ABC (WildStorm, DC).
Yeah, at times Moore tends to go a bit off the deep end. I mean, demanding that his name be taken off anything he's done under DC?!!! Dude, chill! :shock:
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Fletch F. Fletch
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#45 Post by Fletch F. Fletch »

The Village Voice's coverage:

Michael Atkinson on the history of dystopia cinema: http://villagevoice.com/film/0611,atkin ... 27,20.html

J. Hoberman's review: http://villagevoice.com/film/0611,hober ... 26,20.html

Matt Singer on the film's troubled production history: http://villagevoice.com/film/0611,singer,72528,20.html
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numediaman2
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#46 Post by numediaman2 »

nredding2 wrote:David Denby of the New Yorker doesn't like it.

http://www.newyorker.com/critics/cinema ... rci_cinema
And the reply by James Wolcott:
I anticipated that my Upper West Side neighbor David Denby--such a trial for him, bumping into me wherever he goes--would render a negative verdict on V for Vendetta, and so he does, rapping his gavel with stern monotonony as he pronounces sentence. With this review and his pan of Why We Fight, I fear David is drifting toward neoconservatism, a doctrine more congenial to the sort of principled stands he likes to take, offering more room for rhetorical heroism. I pray I am wrong.
http://jameswolcott.com/archives/2006/0 ... _denby.php
leo goldsmith
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#47 Post by leo goldsmith »

This is far more important than any appraisal of the film:


From Page Six:

March 15, 2006 -- "V for Vendetta" writer and producer, the former man
known as Larry Wachowski, may be press-shy - but (s)he is definitely
not shy of public displays of affection. The transgender
writer/producer/director started the process of becoming a woman
several years ago when he and his more normal brother, Andy, were
making the "Matrix" movies. They're now credited simply as "The
Wachowskis," to avoid gender confusion. Larry wore a woman's pantsuit
and makeup - his eyebrows plucked, hair in a blond blob - to the "V"
premiere at the Rose Theater at Time Warner Center Monday night. On
his arm was the woman for whom he left his wife, dominatrix Karin
Winslow. Larry forbid photo or interviews, but he kissed and cuddled
his date. After a visit to the ladies' room, Winslow announced to
Wachowski, "I'm back, Sweetie!" Also there were Marc Jacobs and his
boyfriend, Jason Preston. "I don't normally go out much, but Jason
likes to," Jacobs said. "We mostly live in Paris and don't come to New
York often." Milling around were the "V" stars, Hugo Weaving, Natalie
Portman and John Hurt, plus Martha Stewart, Gloria Allred and Richard
Belzer.
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Len
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#48 Post by Len »

Just came back from seeing this. And well, it's not bad.

But it's not exactly good either. The film seems trapped somewhere inbetween being a faithful adaptation and a totally new interpretation of the source material, but it's closer to the latter. The first half of it is like a really streamlined and skeletal version of the events in the comic, the second half is almost totally written from scratch by the Wachowskis.

I don't think anyone can make a coherent and faithful adaptation of V For Vendetta into a film that's about 2 hours, so I understand the need to rewrite alot. But by doing so and leaving only the most important events, the film feels really flat and one-dimensional, which I disliked the most. One of my favorite things in the original comic is that the entire cast is developed into these real human beings, with personalities. None of that in the film. Evey and V (to some extent) are the only ones that have a backstory. I understand the end result would've prolly been a sprawling mess had they developed everyone to the same extent as in the book, but they could've done a little bit more I think. Especially Finch, who's one of the most interesting (and important) characters in the book has very little to do in this version.

Also, the whole first part of the book which has V disposing of those who wronged him is just almost ridiculously abbreviated in the film. Gone is the great bit of Prothero "revisiting" Larkhill (one of my favorite parts in the book, along with Finch's trip to Larkhill, which was totally destroyed in the film), the speech at the TV Station isn't half as clever as it is in the book and everything just feels terribly rushed.

The second half suffers from the fact that the ending and the events leading up to it that are written by the Wachowskis just aren't nearly as powerful as the ones written by Moore. And they make alot less sense.

Having said that, it's not a bad film. It's got loads of good scenes, the acting is good (Weaving is pretty much a perfect V), it's pretty slick and atleast it preserves the general spirit of the comic, even though Alan Moore would prolly disagree on that. Even the obligatory big action scene in the end doesn't feel too much out of place and it does have some quality violence.

It's better than I expected, but not as good as I hoped. When I first read the book, I thought that it would make a great miniseries. But as that's too much to hope for, this is pretty decent as a Hollywood version of the story. And as for the incoherent nature of this "review", I shouldn't write anything this late.
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jguitar
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#49 Post by jguitar »

I just saw this today too. I'll defer to Len's review, because he's mostly right (particularly about it being better than he expected and not as good as he hoped), but also because what I really want to say is this:

Did anyone else think that the Profero character, when they first saw him, even if only for a split second, was Christopher Hitchens? I mean I knew it wasn't, but for a second, my mind toyed with the possibility. Instead, it stands as a dark warning to Hitchens about what he may become.

That's all.
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The Invunche
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#50 Post by The Invunche »

Whats wrong with The Hitch? I for one enjoy his views on religion.
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