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First, a caveat. I tend not to listen to many commentaries. I personally prefer more condensed special features like the video essays or short documentaries. So you might want to take my comments with a boulder of salt.

General observation: while it is entirely possible that I am a complete moron, it seems to me that there is no way of knowing from either the packaging or the menus whether a particular short has a commentary. You have to select the short and then in some instances there is a menu that allows you to choose a commentary. Assuming I am not missing something, this is pretty annoying.

So then I flipped through all the shorts on disc 5 and found no commentaries.

On disc 2, I sampled commentaries on "Another Fine Mess" and "Hog Wild." Each one has two commentaries.

One commentary on "Another Fine Mess" appears to solely concern the composer of the music. It seemed to have a lot of facts, but I wasn't really all that interested. The second alternated between facts about the short (where and when it was shot, who was in it, things like that) and what I thought were relatively uninformative observations about the action. It had its moments - notes about the shooting script, some remarks about the pre-code conversation on the couch - but overall it didn't do that much for me.

One commentary on "Hog Wild" was basically facts about the production - comments about the multiple language versions, facts about the construction of the fake house they used for the set. Not bad, but I didn't find it super-engaging. The other commentary ran more with the action, but it seemed to me to mostly consist of commenting on how the gags were funny. I liked the first commentary better.

In all honesty, I didn't listen to any of these commentaries from beginning to end - more like 5 minutes or so of each, skipping around to sample commentary during different parts of the short. I wasn't wowed by any of them, but, again, I might not be the best judge. To sum up, I'm still happy with this set - but I didn't buy it for the commentaries. Unless I happened to pick some particularly weak ones, I think that if the commentaries are important to you, it is possible you'd be disappointed.

DVDTALK review of the dvd box set... excellent review of it and good things to say about the set.

If you want to pick this up, it's in stock on Amazon right now- but I'd hurry, it says there's only 20 copies and it's been going for three times as much lately.

FWIW, I ordered the set from B&N with a nonmember coupon (A8N7K7X) bringing the total to $50.99. The product page says it ships within 1-2 weeks, but right after ordering it was scheduled to ship within a few days.

Max, thanks for the write-up on the commentaries. The track on Another Fine Mess, about the great composer/bandleader Leroy Shield holds potentially great interest for me, but I'm bracing myself for these to mostly be pretty dull. I'm also not a big fan of the format in general.

Max von Mayerling wrote:...I feel somewhat ashamed to admit I had never seen any of this stuff - I think they just never showed these things on the Detroit-area television stations when I was growing up in the 70s...

Actually, these shorts/features were all over local Detroit-area TV in the 70s (every weekday around 4 p.m. or 5 p.m. on Channel 20 or 50 if I remember correctly) which is where I first saw them. I love LeRoy Shield's scores for the Hal Roach shorts so I'd probably enjoy a commentary devoted entirely to his work. The set does sound like it's the best that will be released; I've stayed away from ordering only because I'm so familiar with the material from seeing it repeatedly on TV in the 70s

Odd that I remember watching the Three Stooges ... and the Little Rascals. But I don't remember ever seeing these. Not doubting you. I must have had other priorities...

Max von Mayerling wrote:Odd that I remember watching the Three Stooges ... and the Little Rascals. But I don't remember ever seeing these. Not doubting you. I must have had other priorities...

Ironically, I just noticed that the DVDTalk review linked above has the reviewer reminiscing about seeing Laurel and Hardy on Channel 50 in Detroit in the 70s!

Just wanted to say that I also picked these up, and I'm actually really enjoying the commentaries- they're informed, they're from real scholars (in various fields), and they avoid just narrating what is going on. Plus, nobody has a terribly annoying voice. I haven't heard anything spectacular on here, but I'd say these are consistently better than like the commentaries on the Twilight Zone, if that's a useful comparison.

There is a lot of 'that actor is _____ who is best known from _____' followed by ten minutes of digression but honestly that's endemic to commentaries on these things.

And I completely defer to matrixschmatrix on the question of judging the quality of the commentaries. One is better off trusting his take over mine.

RE: La vida nocturna (1930: James Parrott) on the second disc.

For some reason I had a lot of trouble playing this on my DVD. It ran into pixalization and then stopping late in the movie. In order to finish it I had to chapter skip and rewind back a little bit (but not to the part where it freezes). It was consistent in its freezing and the disc is new with no scratches. So far everything else plays fine. Anyone else have this issue?

So any word on the silent sequel to this?

I don't think there can be a sequel, at least not from the same source, as the silents are owned by a different company to the talkies (in the US). Last I heard, the announced "definitive" US collection of the L&H silents had completely fizzled and customers who'd paid up-front were filing mail fraud charges to recover their money. Also, it has been revealed that the producer who was put in charge of the surviving camera negatives let them rot in his California garage....

From Nitrateville:

Bor Enots (Rob Stone) wrote:I can tell you where a number of the original camera negatives for the silent went.... into barrels of water to be incinerated. I know because I did it. Nothing is more sickening for a film fan (much less a big L&H lover) then to have to do that, but HABEAS CORPUS was a solid brick... completely beyond ANY chance for restoration. Why? because Michael Agee kept it, and many of the silent nitrate negatives he has in his trust, in his garage. His un-air conditioned, gets hotter than 100 degrees Yorba Linda, California garage!!!! He finally after it was too late for much of the material give it over to UCLA and we had to get rid of a good amount of it. If there had been a single frame we would have saved it... but in many cases the reel was a total loss.

I just noticed that the six 20th Century Fox films have been released on Blu-ray/DVD combos in Norway by a company called Foreign Media Group.

They appear to be pan Nordic editions, and judging by the cover art on-line the packaging is in English. The titles released are

A Haunting We Will Go (1942)
Jitterbug (1943)
The Dancing Masters 1943)
The Big Noise (1944)
Great Guns (1941)
The Bullfighters (1945)

Perhaps this bodes well for future releases of the Hal Roach films too?

http://www.platekompaniet.no/Search.asp ... ay&x=0&y=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jonathan S wrote:I don't think there can be a sequel, at least not from the same source, as the silents are owned by a different company to the talkies (in the US). Last I heard, the announced "definitive" US collection of the L&H silents had completely fizzled and customers who'd paid up-front were filing mail fraud charges to recover their money. Also, it has been revealed that the producer who was put in charge of the surviving camera negatives let them rot in his California garage....

From Nitrateville:

Bor Enots (Rob Stone) wrote:I can tell you where a number of the original camera negatives for the silent went.... into barrels of water to be incinerated. I know because I did it. Nothing is more sickening for a film fan (much less a big L&H lover) then to have to do that, but HABEAS CORPUS was a solid brick... completely beyond ANY chance for restoration. Why? because Michael Agee kept it, and many of the silent nitrate negatives he has in his trust, in his garage. His un-air conditioned, gets hotter than 100 degrees Yorba Linda, California garage!!!! He finally after it was too late for much of the material give it over to UCLA and we had to get rid of a good amount of it. If there had been a single frame we would have saved it... but in many cases the reel was a total loss.

This is terribly sad. From what I can glean in conversations on forums, in spite of everyone's justifiable anger toward Agee, he seems like a well-meaning guy who wants to be perceived as a champion of film preservation, but can't bear to let anyone (with money, means, knowledge, etc.) to shepherd the project, especially if it means he has to relinquish physical control of the negatives. He's been involved with this for so long, he has confused himself with Hal Roach Studios, even though, judging by the results of his stewardship, he has knowledge and proprietary interests that can never be met with means. The narrative he provides to disappointed customers is so pathologically self-involved, digressive, and overweeningly heroic--with themes of self-sacrifice and isolation amidst hostile resistance--that I can't help but feel a little sorry for him, even if he did end up destroying camera negatives through negligence. What a strange cat.

Which version of A Chump at Oxford is the better one to watch first?

^ If you're watching it mainly for entertainment (and particularly if you might never get around to both) I'd say go for the extended version - the only one I ever saw for 45 years! But if you're watching them more or less back-to-back, and have a scholarly interest in comparing them, it might be easier - and ultimately more satisfying - to start with the short version.

It always used to be claimed that the only difference was the addition of the dinner party sequence, but in fact there are minor editing changes throughout, including the opening street-sweeping scene.

Thanks, I'm just trying to burn through my kevyip before a massive workload hits so I'll just watch the long version.

I'm watching through this whole thing, and really enjoying it, but it's driving me crazy that there doesn't seem to be a good way to get the silent shorts- should I just buy the massive R2 brick? I feel like it would make the Essential set redundant, but it seems preferable to spending what would apparently be about $2500 on the Image discs for the missing parts.

matrixschmatrix wrote:I'm watching through this whole thing, and really enjoying it, but it's driving me crazy that there doesn't seem to be a good way to get the silent shorts- should I just buy the massive R2 brick? I feel like it would make the Essential set redundant, but it seems preferable to spending what would apparently be about $2500 on the Image discs for the missing parts.

I own both and bought the Essential set long after the UK one, mainly because the foreign-language versions are subtitled on the R1, but not on the R2 (unless they've added them since the set's initial release). There are also a few exclusive items on the Essential set and, generally speaking, the prints are slightly cleaner or otherwise superior to the R2 talkie transfers. And of course there's no PAL speed-up.

Note the print quality of the silents varies greatly on the UK set. I haven't seen enough of the R1 Image releases to compare visually but I do believe the scores on the R2 are generally much better, in some cases specially tailored to the films. From what I've seen/heard of the R1 silents, they use the same vintage needle-drop tracks, crudely stitched together, which quickly become annoyingly repetitive.

Ok, thanks very much- I'll just wait for a good price on that giant R2 set, and then I can stop driving myself crazy about this.

From the reviews on Amazon.co.uk it appears that these are unrestored upscales and best avoided

Anyone get the Definitive Restorations Blu-ray box set? I've only seen caps on blu-ray.com, but it looks very disappointing. The review claims that the restorations without UCLA's title cards (i.e. probably older restorations) tend to look more filtered and scrubbed, but pretty much ALL of the caps have that waxy, smeared look to them, especially the ones that DO look like newer restorations from better elements (much better contrast, no scratches or lines, etc.)

A shame because I saw a bunch of these projected at MoMA's restoration festival (To Save and Project) around 2014 and/or 2015 - they looked GREAT and I was expecting the BD's not to botch it.

hearthesilence wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:29 pm Anyone get the Definitive Restorations Blu-ray box set? I've only seen caps on blu-ray.com, but it looks very disappointing. The review claims that the restorations without UCLA's title cards (i.e. probably older restorations) tend to look more filtered and scrubbed, but pretty much ALL of the caps have that waxy, smeared look to them, especially the ones that DO look like newer restorations from better elements (much better contrast, no scratches or lines, etc.)

A shame because I saw a bunch of these projected at MoMA's restoration festival (To Save and Project) around 2014 and/or 2015 - they looked GREAT and I was expecting the BD's not to botch it.

I have not seen the Definitive Restorations Bluray box set --- but here is a thread on the subject, with valuable information about audio, video, restoration technicalities and extras in various posts:
https://www.hometheaterforum.com/commun ... st-4884265

Stefan Andersson wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:29 pm I have not seen the Definitive Restorations Bluray box set --- but here is a thread on the subject, with valuable information about audio, video, restoration technicalities and extras in various posts:
https://www.hometheaterforum.com/commun ... st-4884265

Thanks! I also found RAH's review on that board and unfortunately he seems to confirm the problems with the set:

Robert A. Harris wrote:I'm not quite certain how to review this set, as it's an extremely important document. It bills itself as "Definitive," "2k/4k From Original 35mm Nitrate Sources," and capping those claims with "The best quality since their original release."

Thems big claims!

There are some terrific people and entities behind the set, but it's let down by some of the best hyperbole this side of P.T. Barnum, which I'd surmise came from the marketing side of the project, not being in sync with the restoration and production side.

In short, the claims don't match the finished product.

Here's a sample of what I'm seeing, and keep in mind, everything is publicized to be from 2 and 4k scans of original nitrate:

Some of the M-G-M logos appear tacked on

Berth Marks - Soft, dupey

Brats - Overall soft imagery, with some blown-out whites

Hog Wild - Okay with black levels a bit odd in some shots

Come Clean - Soft and grainless

One Good Turn - Soft and grainless

My and My Pal - Overly digitally soft and grainless

Help Mates - Soft, appears digitally scrubbed. No grain. Lite scratches

The Music Box - Digitally cleansed, no grain, underlying dirt and wear

And the features:

Sons of the Desert - overall dupey, obviously not from original nitrate elements

Way Out West - Nice densities, wonderful audio, overall lack of resolution and detail, soft on the verge of going waxy.
Occasional light positive and negative dirt. A wonderful film that appears to have received an overall digital
cleansing that removed high-frequency definition.

In short, these no longer look like film. They're average appearing video products lacking in overall quality.