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Oedipax wrote:The MGM Koyaanisqatsi was definitely soft, but the IRE open matte edition is a real glory to behold.

The MGM disc is derived from IRE's HD transfer; there is no "MGM transfer." If it looks softer, it's probably due to the standard def downconversion and/or the disc's compression/authoring.

aox wrote:yeah, the story was incredible; truly riveting. Best since 1929's Man with a Camera.

hahah maybe storytelling was the wrong word, but the movie is certainly about something, its not just a collection of random pretty images and the number of people who are interested in this film just for the cinematography and music is alarming

stalfyan wrote: and the number of people who are interested in this film just for the cinematography and music is alarming

no... it's a good movie to take drugs to, too.

aox wrote:yeah, the story was incredible; truly riveting. Best since 1929's Man with a Camera.

I thought this criticism of the word storytelling was a bit unfair - Koyaanisqatsi and Powaqqatsi are both narratives (and I'm sure Naqoy is too, but I've only seen it twice), with prologues, a series of building climaxes, a denouement, etc. This is evidenced by Powaq's two halves: the first half of the film focuses on the untouched lands on the earth, and the second half centers on the technological developments in formerly tribal/native cultures. These two halves are bridged by a long segment depicting trains. That's not even symbolism - it just is!

Same too with Koyaanisqatsi's climactic "The Grid" section, where many of the film's elements (vessels, media, etc) combine into a frenzy, but Reggio still insists on showing us daytime first, then nighttime.

I'm not just saying that the films are structured, but that they amount to, if not storytelling, then storyshowing. But that's probably a stupid distinction. The structure of the films is not as simply abstract as music, nor is it as context-heavy as a documentary or fiction film. Though the films remove images from their original context, the images are not context-less within the film, and connecting the various images as we watch amounts to a sort of narrative or storytelling.

I tried watching these films with technically minded engineer types. They were constantly trying to identify where the scenes took place, what was happening to the people in the shots, who was being shown, etc. They succeeded with a few images, but this doesn't ultimately matter; while focusing on the original context of the images, they remained unable to place these images next to each other and form the narrative context in their own minds.

Koyaanisqatsi is a good film to mute and play better music along with, that's for sure (I have thousands of records in my collection which qualify). I did this a whole bunch of times in the nineties, the synchronicities on almost anything I tried were startling.

jon abbey wrote:Koyaanisqatsi is a good film to mute and play better music along with, that's for sure

What's wrong with Philip Glass?

Magic Hate Ball wrote:What's wrong with Philip Glass?

Jon Abbey, Galen Young, and I exchanged some posts about that topic on the last page of this thread. My position was sticking up for some of his works while admitting that he's sort of run a lot of his ideas into the ground. The best way to appreciate his contribution to these three films, in my view, is to try and forget the kind of thing he's contributed to films like The Hours and Cassandra's Dream and to just assess primarily how the music works within the -qatsi films rather than seeing it as part of his huge body of film-related work. These were special projects for him, and Reggio considered him an equal participant in shaping the film to himself and Fricke (I'm not sure about how Michael Hoenig's role fits in to this -- I need to refresh my memory). It's not like most film music, which is tacked on after production is finished.
Similarly, I think some of his best, early work, such as "Two Pages" and "Music With Changing Parts" can best be seen as the important pieces they are within the context of the avant-garde of which he was still a part at that time, rather than merely the context of his enormously prolific body of work as a composer. That's just the view of someone who is pretty selective about Glass's output, of course.

man, nice memory. that discussion actually started on the page before, FWIW.

anyway, yeah, just never been a Glass fan, but used to really love Koyaanisqatsi (the last time or two I tried, I found it had lost most of its punch for me. I think this may be because it's been so influential in the interim, not sure.) however, the time I saw it in the theater, the Glass soundtrack made me want to kill everyone around me, I found the whole experience much more enjoyable at home playing entirely different music, no matter how formative Glass was in making the film, and thought I'd pass that on, FWIW.

Gregory wrote:

Magic Hate Ball wrote:What's wrong with Philip Glass?

Jon Abbey, Galen Young, and I exchanged some posts about that topic on the last page of this thread. My position was sticking up for some of his works while admitting that he's sort of run a lot of his ideas into the ground. The best way to appreciate his contribution to these three films, in my view, is to try and forget the kind of thing he's contributed to films like The Hours and Cassandra's Dream and to just assess primarily how the music works within the -qatsi films rather than seeing it as part of his huge body of film-related work. These were special projects for him, and Reggio considered him an equal participant in shaping the film to himself and Fricke (I'm not sure about how Michael Hoenig's role fits in to this -- I need to refresh my memory). It's not like most film music, which is tacked on after production is finished.
Similarly, I think some of his best, early work, such as "Two Pages" and "Music With Changing Parts" can best be seen as the important pieces they are within the context of the avant-garde of which he was still a part at that time, rather than merely the context of his enormously prolific body of work as a composer. That's just the view of someone who is pretty selective about Glass's output, of course.

I would agree with you Gregory - those early works, that masterpiece of minimalism Music in Twelve Parts, the 3 first operas - Einstein on the Beach (I prefer the earlier CBS recording), Satyagraha and Akhnaten - and Koyaanisqatsi, The Civil Wars and various Dance and Solo Piano pieces, are the Glass I really admire and appreciate, when he was still fresh and original... While some of his later symphonies are not without interest, those soundtrack scores you mention (and many others) are essentially rehashes of old themes, which play as a kind of muzak on the soundtrack and in fact are virtually interchangeable (like his British counterpart Michael Nyman who actually composed and recorded a complete soundtrack for THE HOURS, before it was axed and Glass drafted in)...

The joke told about Philip Glass is that he can compose the music faster than the musicians can play it and the engineers can record it, in some of his more commercial commissions...

jon abbey wrote:...I found the whole experience much more enjoyable at home playing entirely different music, no matter how formative Glass was in making the film...

I'm curious what pieces you remember working particularly well.

While I do agree that Philip Glass has pretty much exhausted himself (the soundtrack for The Hours is nice sleeping music if nothing else), I'm not hot on the idea of playing other music while watching Koyaanisqatsi. Perhaps I find the music too ingrained into the experience of the film. Also, I'm guessing that any significant synching with music is just false pattern reinforcement or whatever it's called in that you want it to synch up, so you imagine that it does; you could probably play Wham! and get the same result.

These films are really the only way I can actually listen to Phillip Glass (with the exception of the counting sequence in Einstein on the Beach).

My 16 year old son does a send up of Koyaanisqatsi, which he know his dad likes - low drone, 'earth', boom boom, 'water', drone, boom, 'space' etc....

Gregory wrote:

jon abbey wrote:...I found the whole experience much more enjoyable at home playing entirely different music, no matter how formative Glass was in making the film...

I'm curious what pieces you remember working particularly well.

it was a long time ago, and I don't really, sorry. if I tried it again now, I'd play some of the long-form pieces in the electroacoustic world that I work in (my label for those who don't know, erstwhilerecords.com), I think some of those would be fantastic fits.

and yeah, of course it's "false pattern reinforcement", but I think it also shows the flexibility of the visual component of the film. I can certainly see why some people wouldn't want to try this, but I recommend it highly for anyone else.

so, has there been any update on this?

after watching Baraka on Blu-Ray, it re-perked my interest in the qatsi trilogy (I almost wanted to watch the DVDs - I have spun a DVD 3-4 times since buying my PS3 ](*,) I just struggle to go back), and if they can be remastered as well as Barak was, then we are in for a treat...

I see that this thread is a bit old, so I wanted to give it a bump.

Has anyone from Criterion confirmed Reggio's announcement?

I recall seeing this film when it first opened in Philadelphia (wow, that was a long time ago! I was in high-school then) and the print was pristine and glorious. Years later when I purchased the MGM DVDs I was thrilled to be able to experience at least part of what captivated me in the theater, but the image was distinctly softer (which is what happens with transfers, I guess). So I'm really hoping that this story is true and that Criterion will be doing its usual superb job of remastering the film.

jon abbey wrote:

Gregory wrote:

jon abbey wrote:...I found the whole experience much more enjoyable at home playing entirely different music, no matter how formative Glass was in making the film...

I'm curious what pieces you remember working particularly well.

it was a long time ago, and I don't really, sorry. if I tried it again now, I'd play some of the long-form pieces in the electroacoustic world that I work in (my label for those who don't know, erstwhilerecords.com), I think some of those would be fantastic fits.

and yeah, of course it's "false pattern reinforcement", but I think it also shows the flexibility of the visual component of the film. I can certainly see why some people wouldn't want to try this, but I recommend it highly for anyone else.

Well, Jon, I've come to agree with you on this, at least for Powaqatsi, although I still tentatively think the score for Koyaanisqatsi works well. A couple of months ago I rewatched Powaqatsi and found myself getting quite annoyed by the experience, realizing after a while that the music was the problem for me. I threw on some early kosmische musik stuff instead and everything picked up from there.

ellipsis7 wrote:The joke told about Philip Glass is that he can compose the music faster than the musicians can play it and the engineers can record it, in some of his more commercial commissions...

I had thought the joke told about Philip Glass was as follows:

Knock knock.
Who's there?
Knock knock.
Who's there?
Knock knock.
Who's there?
Knock knock.
Who's there?
Knock knock.
Who's there?
Knock knock.
Who's there?
Philip Glass.

Or was that Steve Reich?

Gregory, thanks for the link to the Glass discussion that took place in the "Revenge Trilogy" thread. Though a tad harsh (excellent burn on Marsalis!), I often tend to agree with Jon Abbey's assessment of Glass's work. Though there are certain compositions of his that stand out, I just can't bring myself to put him in the same category as Reich, Riley, Young, Conrad, etc... Young and Zazeela's "The Black Record" has made a much bigger impression on me than all of the Glass works that I've heard.

Yeah, that is a Philip Glass joke. It's told in the trailer to Glass: A Portrait Of Philip In 12 Parts.

EDIT: trailer link is broken, but as I recall, Chuck Close tells the joke.

Masked Marvel, you have the Black Record?

Gregory wrote:Masked Marvel, you have the Black Record?

Not a physical copy, unfortunately. The only actual physical media I own involving Young consists of the "Inside the Dream Syndicate" disc (illegally) released by Table of the Elements and two Pran Nath releases.

The man simply does not appear to enjoy releasing music commercially.

The real Masked Marvel



Charley Patton

I wonder how this will be released. Surely in a Qatsi box, but also hopefully as stand alones, at least for Koyaanisqatsi, which (for me and I think most others) stands head and shoulders above the rest in the trilogy.

The business model these days seems to suggest that it will be release in every possible way (box-set, standalone dvd, blu-ray and perhaps as part of a rialto boxset).

What? The why isn't the Imamura box split up? Or the Teshigahara (something I know a lot of people wished for). They haven't split a box up since the Malle box (unless I'm forgetting something, but I don't think I am).