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EddieLarkin wrote:(although get ready for some being unhappy because they're a tad softer)

I'm just seeing these caps now, and yes, I admit, I would be part of the ones saying 'ooh it's been soften". But in this case, there is visibly a good reason for it, and it seems to have been done with care so why not ?

Yeah I'm saying in this case being softened is a positive. Some people though (I'm thinking your typical caps-a-holic commentator) would point it out as a negative, ignoring the fact that in this particular circumstance it makes for a more pleasant viewing experience.

It's lowpass filtered, which is not strictly the same as softening. "Softening" would imply blurring all the pixels together, whereas lowpass filtering is selecting which frequencies are allowed to participate in the final output image.

Review on The Arts Shelf

Tim Lucas doesn't seem to be aware of the existence of Josef Kroner's actor brother Ludwik and confirms this by wondering why Josef is credited as Ludwik in EDEN AND AFTER. I am surprised he thinks both brothers look alike, they seem obviously different to me. For those who don't remember Josef was the lead actor in SHOP ON THE MAIN STREET.

As to why PLAYING WITH FIRE (1975) was left out of the set. It does complete this first period of Robbe-Grillet's films and should be here. I assume that, based on the sales of this set, another 4 film set may be eventually issued since all his films were issued in France in one mammoth set. (Too risky outside of France no doubt.)

Started this set, being off work for a week. L'Imortelle I found intriguing if a little baffling (guess that's the point) and lovely to look at; seeing the ruins of Istanbul, a sort of erotic travelogue if you like. Trans-Europe Express has been for me the most satisfying so far, (watched three) there's the novel device of the three film-makers discussing plot twists and continuity flaws which is witty but does serve as a handy guide to those getting a little lost in the labyrinthine plot; eg: Moi!

Chronology goes a bit awry now; inadvertently skipped The Man Who Lies and viewed Eden And After which, if I'm honest found to be infuriating and downright pretentious. Before coming to my own conclusion that it wasn't even attempting any narrative structure let alone plot (not against the law I know) I was even racking my brains to make any sense of it, thought it may be a metaphor for the French in Algeria (yes I was that befuddled!!) before resigning just to let the arresting imagery play out. Would love to hear anyone else's opinion / take, on what it all could / doesn't mean.

So far I'm enjoying the set, if a little worn out.

olmo wrote:Started this set, being off work for a week. L'Imortelle I found intriguing if a little baffling (guess that's the point) and lovely to look at; seeing the ruins of Istanbul, a sort of erotic travelogue if you like. Trans-Europe Express has been for me the most satisfying so far, (watched three) there's the novel device of the three film-makers discussing plot twists and continuity flaws which is witty but does serve as a handy guide to those getting a little lost in the labyrinthine plot; eg: Moi!

Chronology goes a bit awry now; inadvertently skipped The Man Who Lies and viewed Eden And After which, if I'm honest found to be infuriating and downright pretentious. Before coming to my own conclusion that it wasn't even attempting any narrative structure let alone plot (not against the law I know) I was even racking my brains to make any sense of it, thought it may be a metaphor for the French in Algeria (yes I was that befuddled!!) before resigning just to let the arresting imagery play out. Would love to hear anyone else's opinion / take, on what it all could / doesn't mean.

So far I'm enjoying the set, if a little worn out.

The extras, specifically the commentary, has lots of great information about the background to Eden and After: it is basically 'generated' as a narrative game in which a bunch of themes have to be repeated x number of times, becoming more concrete as they progress. I actually found the alternative version, N Takes the Dice, a lot more engaging, maybe because its own narrative game (see if you can construct a completely different narrative using the same basic footage) is much simpler and it frees Robbe-Grillet from the oppression of the much more schematic structure of the parent film. Also, I enjoyed finding out that the films don't include the colour green because Robbe-Grillet just doesn't like it.

Oh, and just as there is no I in 'TEAM', there is no I in "L'Eden et apres" - but there is one in "N. a pris les des." I don't know where the factoid that one title is an anagram of the other originated, but it isn't true!

It is more a phonetic anagram than a pure one.

N aprè(i)s l'Ede / N a pris les dés

Did anyone had a problem with the picture on N. Took the Dice? After about half of the edits the top half of the picture is displaced slightly to the right before re-aligning itself in the next frame. This is visible on normal playback and when I step through frame-by-frame.
I e-mailed the BFI to make them aware of it but received no reply.

They're fully aware of it - when the issue was discussed elsewhere, encoder David Mackenzie said:

It's caused by the use of line-at-a-time telecine method rather than a frame film scan (the latter is slower and more expensive).

In other words the film is transferred one line at a time (either by CRT flying spot as was the case here, or by CCD chip). In both cases, scanning the entire vertical frame is achieved by the transport of the film through the machine. So, any snags or bumps (as you'll often see around scene cuts) will result in this sort of random vertical warping since some parts of the film, that should only be scanned for one line, are stuck in one position for longer so end up creating more lines on the output.

Interpolating it out digitally (as well as being semi-manual and therefore expensive) is difficult because it generally happens on the first frame of a scene. Therefore you can't do motion analysis to replace the weird-looking area with part of the frame before and part of the frame after, because there is no frame before.

I find it more than surprising that this thread doesn't even once mention THE BLUE VILLA, his film from 1995 which, until now, has never been released on DVD. The only copy I can find is a terrible torn digitalized copy of a VHS tape.

BFI, get up and go for the rest, please!!

Anyone know why Trans-Europ Express is only getting a dvd stand alone release, and not bluray?

j99 wrote:Anyone know why Trans-Europ Express is only getting a dvd stand alone release, and not bluray?

BFI has ascertained that there's a general market for that film that will buy a DVD of it, and that the majority of the cinephile audience who would want it on BluRay already have the box set? That would be my guess anyway, and it's consistent with the BFI's practice for niche arthouse titles of issuing BluRays only in limited quantities as a first printing, then maintaining availability on much more cost effective DVD (GAZWRX, The Riddle of the Sphinx).

Plus, if this film really is the commercial standout of the set, leaving the HD presentation of it as a box set exclusive makes sound commercial sense.

zedz wrote: BFI has ascertained that there's a general market for that film that will buy a DVD of it, and that the majority of the cinephile audience who would want it on BluRay already have the box set? That would be my guess anyway, and it's consistent with the BFI's practice for niche arthouse titles of issuing BluRays only in limited quantities as a first printing, then maintaining availability on much more cost effective DVD (GAZWRX, The Riddle of the Sphinx).

Plus, if this film really is the commercial standout of the set, leaving the HD presentation of it as a box set exclusive makes sound commercial sense.

That sounds likely, but it is a pity since it is the only Grillet film I want to own. I guess I'll have to make do with the dvd.

j99 wrote:That sounds likely, but it is a pity since it is the only Grillet film I want to own. I guess I'll have to make do with the dvd.

Robbe-Grillet, not Grillet. And it's out in a separate Blu-ray edition in the US, albeit region-locked - which may also have been instrumental in the BFI's decision not to release it separately.

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Due to a thread split, the justification for the filtering is no longer part of this thread. You can read the previous discussion here.

Needless to say, the justification had nothing remotely to do with consideration for customers who don't want their transfers to appear grainy. I imagine that sort of attitude is anathema to everyone who was involved in the technical production of the set. What you refer to as grain is in fact noise, and its reduction from the image is a positive.

A good pair of articles explaining the difference between grain and noise can be found here and here.

Grain and noise - big, big difference.

As EddieLarkin said, the point was not to cater to people who don't like the look of film - quite the opposite, the point was to reduce the harsh high frequencies (which are a video artefact) to restore a more film-like look.

I have the BFI set and don't see a problem with the video. It's true that the noise (not grain) was selectively and judiciously filtered out, but it leaves plenty of detail in the image, and even some film grain. The set overall lies well within the boundaries of what I would call a solid Blu-ray presentation, especially for lower budget French art films of the 60s and 70s. We are not at all talking about a Children of Paradise-type radical degraining. It's important to view these films in motion and not just rely on the screencap comparisons, which are useful but only up to a point.

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We are not at all talking about a Children of Paradise-type radical degraining

Yeah, LPF is not even in the same category. Low pass filtering rolls off the high, in this case, noisy frequencies. This is a spatial only filter so doesn't make the grain plus noise look sticky or slowed down. It's a frequency shaping tool, not an NR one. The grain moves the same way as before.

If making it look like video or removing grain was the goal, a la CoP, a heavy temporal filter would be in order. Grain soup. Yeuuch, no thanks!

Also, sorry for being a bit harsh in expressing my dissappointment.

On that note... please don't hold back just because I'm reading. We're dealing with technical facts, so nothing's personal

Who holds the rights to a blu ray of Gradiva?
Is this a possibility in any region?

Gradiva was his last one, right?
I have heard some pretty bad things about it. :/ With all these directors (Rollin, Borowczyk etc.) their very late ventures into digital no-budget filmmaking were all rather... sad.
But hey, it's better than nothing.

I am still interested how the rights situation of "The Blue Villa" stands, though.

kekid wrote:Who holds the rights to a blu ray of Gradiva?
Is this a possibility in any region?

I don't think any label with any respect for the legacy of Robbe-Grillet would want to release this, except as an unfortunate curio for completists.

It was terrible - an old man's folly, impossible to recognise as the work of the director of L'Immortelle, let alone the author of La Jalousie. (Though my dim memory may have inflated its ineptitude.)