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Posted: **Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:55 pm**

colinr0380 wrote:LQ/mfunk, have you seen Meanwhile? It sounds from your descriptions of this film as if you might like that one too!

I have never seen a Hal Hartley film.

Posted: **Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:54 pm**

Probably the time to change that. He's been hit or miss for me, but Meanwhile was legit small scale great.

Posted: **Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:46 pm**

I very much enjoyed this film. Typical Coen film of interestingly rich characters, even down to the supporting characters. Loved the music.

Interesting article on the authenticity of the film

Posted: **Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:26 pm**

Terri Thal discusses Coen Bros liberties taken with film

Posted: **Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:41 pm**

Funny watching Davis jump on the 1 train at the 96th Street station, that was my work commute for several years. (Station looks very different now obviously.)

I liked this, I didn't love it as much as some people seem to because I was put off by certain moments throughout the film. Nothing to do with Davis himself, I actually enjoy the fact that he's not 100% likable, but the Coens' misanthropy does come through at certain parts of the movie, and usually in ways that seemed too incongruous and snide. But I'm referring to at best a handful of moments.

The art direction is fantastic, but I think the authenticity is overhyped too - I don't mind too much, because even though the physical details of the setting are important, this isn't meant to be that kind of a period piece.

Posted: **Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:53 pm**

The new trailer I saw in front of "Grudge Match" would have you believe this movie is about a cat and its folk singer.

Posted: **Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:34 am**

Professor Wagstaff wrote:The new trailer I saw in front of "Grudge Match" would have you believe this movie is about a cat and its folk singer.

Well... [spoilery article]

Posted: **Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:14 pm**

Jeff wrote:
Professor Wagstaff wrote:The new trailer I saw in front of "Grudge Match" would have you believe this movie is about a cat and its folk singer.
Well... [spoilery article]

Spoiler

What I'm still trying to figure out is the film's final "cat" punchline that has Llewyn passing a theater showing THE INCREDIBLE JOURNEY, a movie about a trio of animals finding their way across the U.S. Clearly, this is meant to drive home the point that Llewyn's cat has had his own incredible journey, but the Disney film wasn't released until two years after the events in INSIDE LLEWYN DAVIS take place. I'm not sure if this is a deliberate anachronism or not, but it's interesting to note that THE INCREDIBLE JOURNEY was released the same week John F. Kennedy was assassinated, so...

Posted: **Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:42 pm**

Roger Ryan wrote:
Jeff wrote:
Professor Wagstaff wrote:The new trailer I saw in front of "Grudge Match" would have you believe this movie is about a cat and its folk singer.
Well... [spoilery article]

Spoiler
What I'm still trying to figure out is the film's final "cat" punchline that has Llewyn passing a theater showing THE INCREDIBLE JOURNEY, a movie about a trio of animals finding their way across the U.S. Clearly, this is meant to drive home the point that Llewyn's cat has had his own incredible journey, but the Disney film wasn't released until two years after the events in INSIDE LLEWYN DAVIS take place. I'm not sure if this is a deliberate anachronism or not, but it's interesting to note that THE INCREDIBLE JOURNEY was released the same week John F. Kennedy was assassinated, so...

We later find out the name of the cat is Ulysses. This, together with the poster, suggests that the cat has an Incredible Journey getting back home--one that the present film with its focus on Llewyn can do no more than suggest.

Posted: **Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:48 pm**

Jeff wrote:
Professor Wagstaff wrote:The new trailer
Well... [spoilery article]

The weird thing about that article is that it seems to believe there is only one cat in the film. In fact, there are two, possibly three.

Posted: **Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:05 am**

i purposefully avoided reading anything on this thread or anything else on the internet before i saw this tonight...and now that i have...

Spoiler

it seems pretty apparent to me that if "O brother, where art thou" was their take on "The Odyssey" that this is the Coen's version of the myth of Sisyphus. The circular ending would seem to indicate Llewyn starting over the next day; pushing the boulder back up the mountain again. He's doomed to an eternity of failure and frustration for his various offenses...

...at least that's what i thought...

Posted: **Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:58 am**

Who else but those two gloriously sardonic smartasses, Joel and Ethan Coen, could make a film about coping with artistic failure and patterns of self-destructive behavior so incredibly wise and soulful (and occasionally very funny)? Even after two viewings, I don't feel that I've come close to unpacking everything the Coens have on their minds with Inside Llewyn Davis. At times it feels like an elegy, with Llewyn and all of those around him in mourning for his former partner, Mike, but mostly it feels like an exercise in circular narrative. The story seems to take place inside of a week, beginning with Davis taking a beating in the alley behind The Gaslight in early 1961, then, presumably, flashing back to the events that led up to that incident. I'm still not entirely convinced that's actually what happens.

There's no way to really discuss this film without spoilers, so...

Spoiler

After an impromptu odyssey to Chicago, Llewyn remarks that it feels like he's been gone a lot longer than just a few days. Just how long has Llewyn been repeating the same cycle of sleeping on sofas, impregnating girls, offending his sister and friends, playing gigs at The Gaslight, and chasing after runaway cats? The film opens with Oscar Issac (whose deadpan expression and haunting, plaintive singing voice make him perfect for Llewyn) belting out "Hang Me, Oh Hang Me" over that 1961 title card. Is it still 1961 when we see him performing that number again before the beatdown at the end? The dialog of his assailant changes slightly between the two versions, but it could just be that we're seeing more of the scene. More perplexing is the fact that the other performer at The Gaslight that night, the one he has to share the basket with, is none other than Bob Dylan, performing "Farewell," which he wrote in 1963. Just before walking into the theater he stops to look at a poster for the Disney film, The Incredible Journey, which opened in November of 1963. I can buy the Coens not caring about these anachronisms, but I can't imagine them being accidental. Is it possible that Llewyn has been stuck on this miserable merry-go-round for over two years, unable to get off? Is he the victim a Santeria curse placed on him by an aging, heroin-addicted jazz musician, or is he just plagued by his own uncompromising ideals? Would the Mobius strip come undone if he could actually get off at Akron? Of course that poster for The Incredible Journey and the name of the Gorfein's cat ("Llewyn is the cat?"), Ulysses, point to this being another Coen take on The Odyssey, a circular narrative itself.

The temporal uncertainties, repetitions, metaphors, and literary illusions probably aren't meant to be deciphered in any sort of literal way, but for me, they all add up to one of the Coens best films. Going on that melancholic journey with Llewyn, as he struggles to break his cycle of self-destruction is soul-crushing but sensational. In the end, an outside force steps in to break the cycle, to knock Llewyn off the merry-go-round. His folk-singing odyssey has come to its end. He's just one of hundreds of hopefuls who F. Murray Abraham won't see any money in. Bob Dylan plays The Gaslight with him that night. Jean told him the New York Times was going to be there. Folk music ("If it was never new, and it never gets old, then it's a folk song") is over. Dylan writes his own songs. They are new. It's back to the merchant marines for Llewyn Davis. No catharsis, no arc. Llewyn's time has passed, and he failed. Bless the Coens for having the guts to tell that story.

Posted: **Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:11 am**

Jeff, that was one of the best posts I've read on here in a while. Bravo! Another thing that's interesting that supports your reading...

Spoiler

Earlier that "week," I believe during the performance of "500 Miles," the Gaslight owner says to Llewyn in relation to Jean, "I'd like to fuck her." Later that "week," right before Llewyn's breakdown at The Gaslight the owner tells him, (I paraphrase) "I fucked Jean." Well, that was quick... or was it? Your post suggests that the Coens are playing with structuring/presenting the passing of time. The Incredible Journey and the date of the Dylan song are glaring "errors" if it's 1961 but I think you're right, by the end of the movie it most definitely isn't 1961.

Another thing, too. Didn't one of the guests at the party comment on how funny "Please, Mr. Kennedy" is and how it will be a big hit? Pretty strange considering they just recorded it earlier that "week" & it ought to have been impossible for anybody to have heard any version of it so soon. I can't remember if she said she heard it on the radio or not - if she said radio, then by that scene we're perhaps already in 1962.

I'm not sure how the opening fits in exactly either. Though not the most novel reading, the whole opening could've been something of a premonition Llewyn had before waking up in the apartment. In any case, the scene as it plays now has a "deja vu" effect, which is appropriate I think. What's happening in that scene is his dream probably ending once and for all time.

Posted: **Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:02 pm**

Thanks, Dylan! You are absolutely right about

Spoiler

the "I fucked Jean" and "Please Mr. Kennedy" anomalies. Can't believe I hadn't registered the oddness of those lines before.

I think it this movie might warrant a third cinema viewing for me!

Posted: **Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:05 pm**

barryconvex wrote:i purposefully avoided reading anything on this thread or anything else on the internet before i saw this tonight...and now that i have...
Spoiler
it seems pretty apparent to me that if "O brother, where art thou" was their take on "The Odyssey" that this is the Coen's version of the myth of Sisyphus. The circular ending would seem to indicate Llewyn starting over the next day; pushing the boulder back up the mountain again. He's doomed to an eternity of failure and frustration for his various offenses...
...at least that's what i thought...

I totally agree. I hadn't thought of that until you put it in but it does fit absurdly well with the Sisyphus myth and there are enough call backs to mythology in the film to indicate its at least an idea they thought about

Posted: **Sun Jan 05, 2014 12:02 am**

Sent the Jeff/Dylan posts to Glenn Kenny (one of the unabashed champions of this film) and he said... "Interesting. If you follow the day/night transitions carefully it seems like a day is added to the ordinary week... Re "Mr. Kennedy" it IS possible that Jim got an acetate of the recording right away, that wasn't unheard of."

Posted: **Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:56 am**

barryconvex wrote:
i purposefully avoided reading anything on this thread or anything else on the internet before i saw this tonight...and now that i have...
[Reveal] Spoiler:
...at least that's what i thought...

I totally agree. I hadn't thought of that until you put it in but it does fit absurdly well with the Sisyphus myth and there are enough call backs to mythology in the film to indicate its at least an idea they thought about

what Jeff & Dylan wrote is way more on the money than my little theory but i too have to believe adavis that Sisyphus was something they were thinking of when they conceived this movie...and what a great movie it is. the Coen's and their films don't get talked about much in the elite all-time film lists but they've been doing this now for 30 years without ever making anything truly bad (i've never completely hated anything they've done) and without ever coming close to repeating themselves...they have at least 5 movies i would call a masterpiece (Llewyn Davis is one of them) and they have the greatest car chase scene in all of cinema (in Raising Arizona) to their credit too....

Posted: **Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:31 am**

What a fascinating film. It feels like a journey through purgatory. Davis lives a life of monotony and repetition, unable to break free of his fate: a person condemned to relive the same experiences again and again, a shade among shades. The comparison to Sisyphus is apt, but even that's giving Davis too much credit. Sisyphus at least struggles, and as Camus suggests there is perhaps worth in the struggle alone; Davis merely drifts. He finds some solace and passion in his music, which is perhaps the only place where he seems to come alive, but he never makes any effort to pull himself out of this world.

The visual style is immaculate: the muted winter colors, the evocation of the period, and what's probably the finest framing of any Coen Bros film. The compositions often brought Edward Hopper to mind.

The humor is what makes and saves the film, mitigating the oppressiveness of Davis' life and the pale world he inhabits. What I found especially impressive was the flexibility of their characterization and symbolism, managing to make things ridiculous and moving by turns. They employ bathos beautifully, undermining the melancholy and tragedy with banality and comedy. This perhaps reaches its highest point when Davis goes to Chicago -- the most purgatorial sequence of all -- and meets with Grossman:

Spoiler

They set up the scene in a way that suggests a potential change: Davis is at his lowest point, and the scene is full of a hopeful soft light, solemn moments of silence, and a heartfelt performance. Yet it leads to nothing. Grossman dismisses Davis ("I don't see any money in it.") and leaves him to find his way back to New York to continue this interminable cycle.

Sometimes comic ploys take on tragic dimensions, too, like the cat Davis reluctantly adopts.

Posted: **Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:10 am**

There is one significant change in the cycle of the movie:

Spoiler

The second time, he doesn't let the cat out.

I actually saw him sharing a stage with Dylan as a sign for hope, too- one of the reasons his life is such shit is that folk in general is seen as having little or no money in it (as the club owner said to him a few minutes previously.) With the advent of Dylan, the scene explodes, and being someone attached to it might at least lead to the kind of place that Dave Van Ronk got to hold, someone that was never going to be rich but who the inner inner people sought out as having been one of the originals, something that would make life more comfortable for him specifically because of the very refusal to change or compromise that had been killing him all that time. It's outside the scope of the movie, of course, but in my mind there's just the faintest tinge of optimism hiding around the corners of the end of the movie, a tiny liferaft afloat on a sea of this dude is fucked.

Posted: **Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:17 am**

In the vein of the discussion above:

Spoiler

Couldn't the "au revoir" to the Arkansas (?) couple be signifying the transformation of folk music during the '60s, a final severing from its actual "folk" roots?

I still don't know what to make of the film: my favorite aspect of the Coens is how finely detailed and densely layered their cinematic worlds are, but this is one that seems empty and cold by design. It's their quietest film, by far.

Posted: **Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:42 pm**

So the whole thing is just Groundhog Day with some folk music tossed in? Gee.

Posted: **Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:11 pm**

Jack Phillips wrote:So the whole thing is just Groundhog Day with some folk music tossed in? Gee.

In the same way Upstream Color is just Babe with a love story tacked on.

Posted: **Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:13 pm**

Are you suggesting Cromwell did not make sweet, sweet love to that dog.

Posted: **Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:46 pm**

Jeff - Thanks for the astute analysis! That certainly could help explain why the anachronism of THE INCREDIBLE JOURNEY appears in the film. As noted by "mfunk", the party guest refers to hearing a "test pressing" of "Please Mr. Kennedy" which I saw as the Coens' way of dealing with the limited chronology of the story.

Llewyn Davis has much in common with Barton Fink in that he almost always orchestrates his own downfall, but there is a crucial difference: unlike the questionably-talented Fink, Davis' song-choices are clearly meant to be leagues better than any of his contemporaries' "white bread" or novelty songs. The real 1961 Greenwich folk scene had its share of intelligent, thoughtful folksingers, but the Coens never show us anyone (until the end) who can match Davis' range and talent - that can't be accidental.

Posted: **Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:11 pm**

matrixschmatrix wrote:There is one significant change in the cycle of the movie:

Spoiler
The second time, he doesn't let the cat out.

I actually saw him sharing a stage with Dylan as a sign for hope, too- one of the reasons his life is such shit is that folk in general is seen as having little or no money in it (as the club owner said to him a few minutes previously.) With the advent of Dylan, the scene explodes, and being someone attached to it might at least lead to the kind of place that Dave Van Ronk got to hold, someone that was never going to be rich but who the inner inner people sought out as having been one of the originals, something that would make life more comfortable for him specifically because of the very refusal to change or compromise that had been killing him all that time. It's outside the scope of the movie, of course, but in my mind there's just the faintest tinge of optimism hiding around the corners of the end of the movie, a tiny liferaft afloat on a sea of this dude is fucked.

Spoiler

I agree. I thought the interpretation was that Dylan was coming and finally Davis would achieve some kind of success. It was definitely a happy ending.

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