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The original subtitles (on the current disc) have some translation problems, just with the lack of some wording, like on the Seventh Seal CC disc.

The Hoaglund translation thats been done has added a few 'modern' things like "Fuck you" when one of the peasants talks etc.

Some people might have a problem with the 'new' profanity, but in a sense I think it better translates the words even if they are not literally what they are saying, it IS more about the feeling.

But in this case, i hope they include the older and new subtitles on the upcoming disc.

[quote="martymar"]In that scene with the peasants, the original Japanese dialogue does contain some very profane language so the “newâ€

I doubt such profanity would have been used in 1950s Japanese cinema. Even today it's rare, or so I believe. Incidentally, and sorry if this has been raised before, in Donald Richie's Japan Journals he talks about attending the premiere of Seven Samurai, and how it was subsequently trimmed after that showing (no timing mentioned). Anyone know if it's since been restored?

This is a question I've been wondering, too, so anyone with insight into the matter, please share your thoughts. I myself have been in the belief that the 206-minute version is indeed the "restored" initial version. But I stand to be corrected.

The 208 minute is the version that Richie saw - "Seven Samurai" was cut when it went into whatever in 1953 Japan might be considered general release. I first saw the film in the US in what I believe was about a 150 minute release, then in the early 60s a 165 or so minute release and then by the later 60s the full close to three and one half hour release was shown and that is the version that we know and love today. The funny thing is that as the film got longer it seemed to go by faster - but that is just a mark of the perfection of this film.

As mentioned in the Amacord thread, Kinjitsu informs us of recent OOP Criterions, listed here.

I'm sure I speak for all when I say that I am greatly looking forward to seeing what Criterion puts together for this new edition.

I'm surprised they're putting this out in September. I thought this would be their major stocking-filler Xmas treat for the year. Now - does it have the hideous Hoaglund subs? Just to remind us all:

"But what samurai will fight for peasants just to eat? They're awful proud."

"I was once your age, you know. Perfect your swordplay, then go to war and accomplish great feats. Then become lord of your own castle and domain. But even as you dream such dreams, look, before you know it, your hair goes white, like this. And by that time, you've lost your parents and you're all alone. Tomorrow, you'll go home. You must've learned a lot in these brief days. Fine stories to tell."

"Cut the racket, you little brats. There's no rice. Quit yapping. All right, listen here, you little piss-pants. This is all the rice there is. If we give you any more, we'll get all... (mimics fainting) That's how it is. Say, any of you got a pretty sister?"

I'm glad the Jeck commentary is surviving. The Kurosawa/Oshima chin-wag should be great, too...and glad Donald Richie's getting his two cents in.

Linda Hoaglund wrote:In creating characters and setting tone, not to mention conveying humor, I stray brazenly from literal translation. My goal is to reproduce the Japanese experience of film as faithfully as possible by not bogging down a Western audience with unfamiliar locutions.

Yeah, I hate it when foreigners say things weird. Makes me mad.

I'm really happy with this news, but three discs? It's a little bit overkill for what they have listed, I think. Ah well, what's ten dollars?

I just hope that hers isn't the only option, and they at least leave in the original subs too. Even better would be a Hoaglund/Richie subtitling face-off like on Throne of Blood.

Steven H wrote:I'm really happy with this news, but three discs? It's a little bit overkill for what they have listed, I think. Ah well, what's ten dollars?

I'm guessing since this is the ultimate final regular dvd release of the film many consider the greatest ever made, they are maximizing the bit rate, and spreading the film over two discs, with the extras on the 3rd.

I'm a little surprised they're re-releasing Seven Samurai separately from Yojimbo and Sanjuro. I expected a 3-title box set (perhaps now we should expect just a Yojimbo/Sanjuro box). There will be a lot of angry consumers if Criterion includes the new 3-disc Seven Samurai in a later box set at a discounted price.

Matango wrote:I just hope that hers isn't the only option, and they at least leave in the original subs too. Even better would be a Hoaglund/Richie subtitling face-off like on Throne of Blood.

I agree that would be ideal. But I would've expected then to trumpet dual subs in the specs. Instead, we get

New and improved English subtitle translation

Then again... they've got a minimum of 3 hours of extras alone, not even including this "new documentary" which could easily be feature-length. In fact, unless the doc is 20 minutes or less, the extras would pretty much require two discs. Audio commentaries take up hardly any room, so I'm anticipating a Battle of Algiers style spread of extras with a single disc for the feature.

Narshty wrote:Now - does it have the hideous Hoaglund subs? Just to remind us all:

"All right, listen here, you little piss-pants."

Just to remind us all:

Film Forum wrote:New subtitles by Linda Hoaglund capture the rawness of the language for the first time. (!)

"Cut the racket, you little brats. There's no rice. Quit yapping. All right, listen here, you little piss-pants."

Not so sure how 'raw' that is. Reads like cartoonish Americanization to me (no offence to Americans) - so much so as to dilute the Japanese scenario.

I know it's only three months away, but it needs more. Lots more. This should easily be a four disc set. Plus a 110 page book. The landmark nature of this film is so huge that it completely, utterly deserves this. I'm disappointed.

A joke, right? You're getting the new transfer of the film plus about 10 hours of analysis / background on the discs! Plus the book.

Is anybody familiar with the Oshima / Kurosawa discussion? To me, this sounds like the highlight of the set: it'll be fascinating to see how such radically different aesthetics will find common ground. I was under the impression that Oshima was pretty dismissive of the previous generation of Japanese filmmakers. Does anybody know more about his relationahip with / attitude towards Kurosawa?

Two audio commentaries: one by film scholars David Desser, Joan Mellen, Stephen Prince, Tony Rayns, and Donald Richie; the other by Japanese-film expert Michael Jeck

This interests me because it sounds like a good counterpart to the Michael Jeck commentary which gives one persons opinion of the whole film. What I'm wondering is whether it will be each contributor speaking their piece about the film and handing over to the next in a tag-team style or whether the track will be scene specific and the commentary will jump between the people who have the most to say for specific scenes.

Love the new cover using the samurai banner's logo. Hate the 'new Viridiana' font though - it's like a cheap imitation of the calligraphy of the original Japanese title. Somehow I much prefer/got comfortably used to the font used on the old cover design.

zedz wrote:Does anybody know more about his relationahip with / attitude towards Kurosawa?

I've seen the interview. Oshima by that point was well into his fifties and had calmed down considerably. His attitude throughout the interview is respectful and deferential, and he doesn't really say much of interest. I was a little surprised, actually, at just how silly some of his questions were, e.g., rehashing the old chestnut about how Kurosawa is supposed to be the most "Western" of Japanese directors (Kurosawa himself looked just about out of patience at being asked that question by somebody who should have known better).

What really makes the interview worth watching are Kurosawa's responses, which are intelligent, fascinating, and give a lot of good insights into his mind and way of working. Never a dull moment.

Nice cover art and can't wait to see how they do this commentary.

Seven Samurai: Origins and Influences, a new documentary looking at the samurai traditions and films that impacted Kurosawa's masterpiece

Oh, no! Even Criterion have begun to use the verb "impacted" incorrectly! What hope is there for the rest of humanity?

Two audio commentaries: one by film scholars David Desser, Joan Mellen, Stephen Prince, Tony Rayns, and Donald Richie; the other by Japanese-film expert Michael Jeck

Holy shit!

PLUS: A booklet featuring essays by Peter Cowie, Philip Kemp, Peggy Chiao, Alain Silver, Kenneth Turan, Stuart Galbraith, Arthur Penn, and Sidney Lumet and an interview with Toshiro Mifune

Holy shit!

Well, I s'pose you can afford to call in all the favors you want for Seven Samurai...

New and improved English subtitle translation

Uh-oh.

The new 4.0 mix was created from original optical track recordings, original stereo music masters, and original production sound effects masters.

Wow.

The picture has been slightly window-boxed to ensure that the maximum image is visible on all monitors.

Fuck.

Narshty wrote:

New and improved English subtitle translation

Uh-oh.

yup. bring out your linda hoagland debate notes.
Highlights:

"Those motherfuckers are going to come riding in here nigh after harvest!"