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That’s Zeman for you. I would have said the same thing if I saw them in the reverse order.

He is really fantastic and it's nice to now be able to explore his feature work after loving his shorts for so many years.

I actually really like Invention for Destruction's black and white aesthetic and think it has its own unique feel within his filmography. Of course The Fabulous Baron Munchausen is great and probably my favorite of his films, but it doesn't supplant all the good things I like about Invention for Destruction.

Nor should it, but when I think of the broad claim "the full possibilities of what film has to offer" directed at this, from someone who hasn't seen Baron Munchausen, that's the direction I'll point. I definitely had a personal bias in seeing his best film first, so it was tougher to focus on the unique strengths of the others (and some of his other works I flat out hate like On the Comet, possibly as a result of widening my scope towards worse Zeman over time) though Invention for Destruction is by far the second-best I've seen.

To be fair to me you dropped the gets at part of my quote.

therewillbeblus wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:56 am Nor should it, but when I think of the broad claim "the full possibilities of what film has to offer" directed at this, from someone who hasn't seen Baron Munchausen, that's the direction I'll point. I definitely had a personal bias in seeing his best film first, so it was tougher to focus on the unique strengths of the others (and some of his other works I flat out hate like On the Comet, possibly as a result of widening my scope towards worse Zeman over time) though Invention for Destruction is by far the second-best I've seen.

I'm not too enthusiastic about labeling them in terms of best and second best, in cases where they're doing different things and its not a simple example of one film improving on what the past one was doing. (I realize you're probably not arguing for any kind of hard ranking, and probably just expressing vague levels of appreciation. I just felt like expanding on some of my thoughts.)

For me part of my appreciation of Invention for Destruction is its restrictiveness, its got the most cohesive aesthetic, even going as far as to adding lines through footage of real water to make it match the quality of the sets. It also has less fantasy elements and feels like the world is built around a consistent set of principles.

The Fabulous Baron Munchausen shows off more techniques, and is more imaginative in a lot of ways, but it also creates less of a cohesive world for it. This is of course suitable for the Muchhausen story, and it should feel like someone telling you a fantastic story trying to impress you in all different ways at any given opportunity. Its just that because it has a different aim, it necessarily doesn't achieve all the things that Invention for Destruction was doing.

I'm quite fond of The Fabulous Baron Munchausen, and it was the first time I was exposed to Karel Zeman as well, back when I was just interested in finding all the Munchausen adaptations and had no idea who Karel Zeman was. But as I've spent more time with his films over the years, the more I find myself drawn to revisiting Invention for Destruction specifically for certain things it achieves that his other films don't. This has been a bit more of a recent interest of mine, finding films that most successfully create their own filmic world with its own complete feel, and I think Invention for Destruction is one of the best filmic worlds I've enjoyed sitting in for a while.

knives wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:34 am To be fair to me you dropped the gets at part of my quote.

I don't see how anyone was being "unfair" to you though- I wasn't being pejorative when I cited your statement as "broad," and adding "gets at" wouldn't change that.. I understand that tones don't translate well across type, but I was utterly enthusiastic when you made that declaration (because you're right) and was eagerly pointing you in the direction of what I understand to be Zeman "getting at the full possibilities of what film has to offer" even more. I also mentioned that if I had seen the films in a reverse order I would have made the same claim, so I don't get the problem.. Doesn't matter, I agree with you that Invention of Destruction gets at those possibilities, and I hope you enjoy Baron Munchausen at least as much.

YnEoS wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:06 pm I'm not too enthusiastic about labeling them in terms of best and second best, in cases where they're doing different things and its not a simple example of one film improving on what the past one was doing. (I realize you're probably not arguing for any kind of hard ranking, and probably just expressing vague levels of appreciation. I just felt like expanding on some of my thoughts.)

Yeah, I was honestly just trying to be transparent that my order of exposure desensitized me on a first watch to fully appreciating something 'new' after that flooding of technique and imagination, but your explanation of each film's unique strengths are interesting and I'm excited to revisit Invention of Destruction again with those in mind!

I never said anyone was being unfair. I was just using a common idiomatic expression indicting the beginning of a self defense. Trust me, I was typing with a smile. So don't worry, you weren't being unfair and I should use more emoticons to convey tone 8-[ . This weather is unfair though. Boy, howdy.

Wait until after you've seen Baron Munchausen, but I seriously recommend Film Adventurer Karel Zeman, especially for the section in which a load of Czech film students are charged with recreating certain Zeman shots, the catch being that they're only allowed to use the technology that was available to Zeman at the time. Quite aside from its other huge merits, it's incredibly educational.

knives wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:14 pmThis weather is unfair though. Boy, howdy.

It sure is, a good (or bad) day to watch Do the Right Thing

It's always a good day for that.

My 3-year old daughter picked this out for me as a birthday gift, solely on the basis on the cover (she likes sharks and dinosaurs). Having never seen these movies, I've been going through the set with her. What a delight.

My favorite so far is Invention for Destruction. She really liked Journey to the Beginning of Time. She talked through the whole thing. Constantly asking questions and yelling at the kids. I liked it too, more as a curiosity than as a great movie.

Her favorite so far is the short, A Christmas Dream. She's watched it twice.

I look forward to Baron Munchausen, which I've heard is the best of the group.

Are there any good books and/or articles on Zeman aside from the essays included with the recent Criterion/Second Run Blu-Rays? I'd like to read in depth about him and his films but there doesn't seem to be very much in English.

His daughter, an accomplished artist herself, has written a few things if that perspective sounds interesting.

knives wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:34 pmHis daughter, an accomplished artist herself, has written a few things if that perspective sounds interesting.

If any English translations are available I'd certainly like to read them. Zeman's daughter is a regular presence in the old DVD extras and the newer Blu-Ray ones--she's done a lot to keep her father's work in circulation.

I think they’re mostly originally in English. She’s a Canadian citizen. I’ll try to see if I can find anything else by her when I’ve got a moment.

Am I crazy or was Journey to the Beginning of Time released in the US with an English dub and a different prologue set in a museum? This gave me severe deja vu of a VHS I used to watch constantly to the point where I could recall things shot by shot.

From the movie's Wikipedia page:

"In 1966, another version of the film was released in the US by William Cayton whose company had been marketing Russian animated cartoons and feature films from the 1940s and 1950s, especially those of the famous Soyuzmultfilm studios (well known titles included The Firebird, The Frog Prince, Beauty & the Beast, The Space Explorers, and The Twelve Months). The films were dubbed, sometimes re-titled, partitioned into chapters and distributed to US TV stations. In the case of Cesta do pravěku, Cayton replaced the opening and closing scenes of the original with new footage of American boys who entered the film in a dream sequence whilst visiting the American Museum of Natural History in New York. The film was copied to poor quality film stock and edited into short segments (about six minutes each) for presentation as a serial, syndicated to various children's television programs. The US version was released on VHS video by Goodtimes in 1994. Because of the new sequences, none of the actors' faces could be shown until the original footage began."

Thanks. That must have been the VHS. Good to know I’ve had good taste at least since ‘94.

You can watch that English dub on the Criterion set

Fred Holywell wrote: Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:54 am Svet on Munchausen

And merely 18 months later, Neil Lumbard finalises the coverage of the rest of the set.