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dwk wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:02 pm You are right, it doesn't say "New," so it likely is the old Fox transfer.

Good catch. If it wasn't for the promising sounding conversation between Abbott and the Coens and the new interviews with the behind-the-camera talent, I'd have passed on this release.

swo17 wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:29 pm Odds this includes the original soundtrack over the climactic scene discussed above?

The mention of a "new" 5.1 mix in the specs suggests that this will be the case. Or maybe they changed it even more.

It was the 5.1 mix on the last Blu-ray that was missing the audio

I feel like I've heard enough interviews with the Coens to last several lifetimes, but you never know.

The select scene commentary (of sorts) the two of them did with Sonnenfeld on Blood Simple is a gem.

The Narrator Returns wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:41 pm

swo17 wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:29 pm Odds this includes the original soundtrack over the climactic scene discussed above?

The mention of a "new" 5.1 mix in the specs suggests that this will be the case. Or maybe they changed it even more.

Well hopefully they include the Dolby Digital 4.0 track like the last blu-ray as a secondary option, which retains the music cue- do Criterion always advertise their various tracks in the supplements section, or will this be a 'wait and see' kind of situation?

Well I'm not selling off the old Blu-ray until I know for sure

Of course not, who would? Wasn't my question tho

And I wasn't intending to answer your question! But to answer your question, I believe what you see advertised in the supplements is generally what you get. Someone correct me if I'm wrong

I thought the word had been that they were recutting Miller's Crossing, but the specs make it seem like they haven't?

I'd forgotten about that but yes, Sonnenfeld mentioned something in that interview about a director's cut. Surely if this were a new cut that would be advertised? The listed runtime is two minutes shorter than the previous Blu-ray though. Maybe there are subtle changes they don't want to draw attention to. Or maybe it's nothing

They probably just took out the climactic scene entirely to resolve the problem over the music cue

In addition to the conversation with the Coen brothers, Megan Abbott is interviewing Gabriel Byrne & John Turturro

That IS a nice development!

Excellent, now they just need to recruit Sloper to make a Tag Gallagher video on its themes of masculine vulnerability and we're all set

swo17 wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:29 pm Odds this includes the original soundtrack over the climactic scene discussed above?

Jon Mulvaney confirms that this music cue is present in the Criterion release.

So, to confirm, Criterion is using an older master. BUT it's missing a line: after Byrne hits Mike Starr with the chair, Starr's line "Jesus, Tom" has been cut out. It looks intentional, and I wonder if the Coens maybe wanted it gone because it's actually a bit funnier with Starr just sulking off with the suggestion they don't really know each other all that well. The line almost suggests they had a more personal relationship. Not sure, though.

Also, the music cue at the end has been restored to the 5.1 track.

That’s unfortunate, that line is one of my favorites in the film, and it’s way funnier that Starr would express verbal shock at self-defense rather than just retreating since it suggests (il)logical engagement around the behavior. Glad to hear the music cue is back for the 5.1 track tho!

cdnchris wrote: Thu Feb 10, 2022 6:44 pm So, to confirm, Criterion is using an older master. BUT it's missing a line: after Byrne hits Mike Starr with the chair, Starr's line "Jesus, Tom" has been cut out. It looks intentional, and I wonder if the Coens maybe wanted it gone because it's actually a bit funnier with Starr just sulking off with the suggestion they don't really know each other all that well. The line almost suggests they had a more personal relationship. Not sure, though.

Also, the music cue at the end has been restored to the 5.1 track.

See, I think it's funnier with the line, the idea that they might actually be friends of some sort but their "jobs" sometimes force them to be aggressive with each other and knowing this, but still being surprised by it. The line is funny because we're not expecting them to have a complex relationship due to typical genre convention that they'd just be anonymous goons hassling Tom.

It's my favourite line, too, and I'm sad it's gone (if it was intentional, that is, I still can't say, so maybe there will be yet another trade-in program), but I thought there was something a bit more amusing about him giving Tom a "WTF!?" look and then just sulking off like a baby without saying anything because what do you say to that?? For me it made the whole bit feel more absurd. But yeah, I laughed really hard at that moment when I first saw the film eons ago.

It's also weird for it to be removed since it's part of a running dialogue motif. You can see Starr say the line on-screen, so has the shot actually been altered or is just the audio itself missing?

The shot appears to cut off just before he says it. I'll check again, but I don't recall him mouthing the line, so its not just an audio issue.

EDIT: I went back and compared the scenes closely and the moment is completely cut out, it's not a case of missing audio. On the new Blu-ray, Starr looks up and just when he would have said the line it cuts to him turning and walking away.

cdnchris wrote: Thu Feb 10, 2022 7:38 pm The shot appears to cut off just before he says it. I'll check again, but I don't recall him mouthing the line, so its not just an audio issue.

EDIT: I went back and compared the scenes closely and the moment is completely cut out, it's not a case of missing audio. On the new Blu-ray, Starr looks up and just when he would have said the line it cuts to him turning and walking away.

Do you have the previous blu release? It says that the Criterion is 113 minutes long, while the other release is 115 minutes long. Barry Sonnenfeld did seem to suggest on Lee Kline's podcast that the Coens were working on a Directors' Cut of the film, as well as stating that that Joel Coen wished the film was shorter.

EDIT: Someone emailed Criterion and they were told that the Coen Brothers had made some minimal edits. I wish they would have told us beforehand that this was a slightly-altered version, and include the theatrical cut on this release.

Yep, the film is less than 2-minutes' shorter. Nothing else stood out, but based on that and the edits for Blood Simple I'm going to assume they did other trims throughout the film, using the old Fox master.

This came from the bluray.com forum...

I emailed Criterion and already heard back. I guess you can expect other edits as well.

Quote: Criterion...
I can confirm that the Coens made some minimal edits to the master for this Director-approved release of MILLER'S CROSSING.

Hm. As suspected, this is basically only worth getting for the extras if you already have the old BD and if you care greatly about the restored audio. I think rather than selling the old disc, I'll slip it in with the Criterion once it goes on sale. They could have at least restored Joel's preferred version but we are not even getting that.