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Who's going to buy this before July anyway?

It could very well be the same masters Carlotta presents as 2k are "scanned at 4K but mastered in 2K" and that Criterion chooses to still employ the 4K branding regardless. Who knows? Otherwise, it seems odd two premier boutique labels would release megasets within a year of each other that include different masters of the same films. Granted, if that's the case, there could be rights issues involved. I'll wait and see how the Criterion set turns out, because if there isn't a massive different in image quality from a consumer standpoint I may just buy Carlotta's release instead, even though it excludes Porcile and Teorema.

rrenault wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:27 am It could very well be the same masters Carlotta presents as 2k are "scanned at 4K but mastered in 2K" and that Criterion chooses to still employ the 4K branding regardless. Who knows? Otherwise, it seems odd two premier boutique labels would release megasets within a year of each other that include different masters of the same films. Granted, if that's the case, there could be rights issues involved. I'll wait and see how the Criterion set turns out, because if there isn't a massive different in image quality from a consumer standpoint I may just buy Carlotta's release instead, even though it excludes Porcile and Teorema.

From the Carlotta set : Accatone is a recent 4K restoration from L'immagine Ritrovata with a grading supervised by Luca Bigazzi, Mamma Roma is a 4K restoration from CSC Roma (made from the OCN complemented by an IP), La ricotta is from a "HD restoration" (most likely the same master than the Ro Go Pa G one from the one used by Eureka in 2012), Saint Matthew from a 2K restoration from CSC Roma (the same than the one used by Eureka in 2012), Hawks and Sparrows from a "HD restoration" (same than 2016 Eureka), Comizi d'amore is from a SD master, Oedipus Rex from a "HD restoration" (same than 2012 Eureka), Notes on an African Orestes from a 2K restoration (same than 2012 Eureka) and Medea a 2K restoration (same than the French SND 2013 BD).

The only common things I can see with what is in the Criterion announced specs would be Medea and its 2K restoration, and Accatone and Mamma Roma and their 4K restorations. Everything else is very likely to be newer restorations. In particular, Love Meetings of course, but Saint Matthew looks nothing like a new restoration, and Hawks and Sparrows and Oedipus Rex don't look like anything 4K (even just the scan). That would mean most of the movies are likely to get a noticeable upgrade, Comizi d'amore and Saint Matthew most certainly getting a very noticeable one.

I wouldn't be surprised to discover that Criterion simply had bigger pockets to get newer and better masters while Carlotta had to rely on older ones. To be honest, I was surprised by the PQ of the Carlotta set, as the older masters outnumber the newer ones, down to Comizi d'amore even being a SD master despite touring in theaters (I hope they weren't showing an upscaled DCP) ! On top of that, Mamma Roma's 4k restoration looks digitally tampered with. I've seen a few people on Twitter wondering why this set isn't getting a UHD version, in particular Mamma Roma, fearing Criterion will either release it in a couple of years or never, but not only this seems silly to me in terms of sales potential, but these people probably haven't seen Mamma Roma's restoration...

I think people overestimate the sales potential of non-Anglophone 'arthouse' films on UHD, considering Second Sight was reluctant to even release Walkabout on the format, although some of those French boutique labels have been surprisingly random and eclectic in terms of what they've released on UHD, such as Chat Qui Fume putting a Lino Brocka film on UHD.

Anyhow, if I end up committing to buying Criterion's Pasolini set, Curzon's Three Colors release will probably have to go on the back burner, although I'll probably get their Veronique UHD on day one.

Le chat qui fume is quite a particular label though, as it is a very small team, and that they have done some UHDs like Bayan Ko pretty much because they could and thought it was funny to have such a movie out on UHD before movies like Godard's, Fellini's or Kurosawa's. They managed to find a financial way to do so, but I doubt it'd fit for companys with bigger fixed costs.

rrenault wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:38 am I think people overestimate the sales potential of non-Anglophone 'arthouse' films on UHD, considering Second Sight was reluctant to even release Walkabout on the format,

I don't think they estimate it at all!

Although some actual estimates are good for a giggle, such as the person who assured me that if any of the labels I worked for were to pick up a fairly obscure 1950s mainstream Hollywood title, "you'd sell a quarter of a million copies, guaranteed". Knowing that a hundredth of that would be doing pretty well in the current marketplace, I asked him if he was using the word "guaranteed" in the literal sense of the term - i.e. by offering to make up the financial shortfall if sales inexplicably fell short of his estimate - but it seems that he wasn't.

although some of those French boutique labels have been surprisingly random and eclectic in terms of what they've released on UHD, such as Chat Qui Fume putting a Lino Brocka film on UHD.

I think that's a bit like when the BFI was first getting into Blu-ray circa 2009 and they put out some pretty eye-opening titles amongst their first HD releases - the Jeff Keen box, the Jane Arden/Jack Bond films, and so on. The mere fact that they're out on the latest format ahead of so many far more "obvious" titles makes them potentially intriguing.

tenia wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:49 pm Le chat qui fume is quite a particular label though, as it is a very small team, and that they have done some UHDs like Bayan Ko pretty much because they could and thought it was funny to have such a movie out on UHD before movies like Godard's, Fellini's or Kurosawa's. They managed to find a financial way to do so, but I doubt it'd fit for companys with bigger fixed costs.

Well the only Godard film aside from Breathless I'd say has any chance at all of ever being released on UHD is Contempt, unless someone decides to randomly pull a Chat Qui Fume maneuver with a strong master of something like Une Femme Marié or Made in U.S.A.

Alphaville might have a chance, given decent marketing.

swo17 wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:50 pm Who's going to buy this before July anyway?

This is something that I would like to own the instant it comes out, but I know realistically that I would not actually watch anything in it until sometime in July (at the earliest), so will rein in my impulsiveness and hold off until a sale.

MichaelB wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 3:05 pm Alphaville might have a chance, given decent marketing.

One could market it ironically - 'Tired of the person by your side? Turn to technology to see Godard's technique in the best possible quality. It's only logical!'

Given its themes, it's pretty funny to me that this is the Godard film with the best chance of a 4K upgrade, not that I'm complaining

For what it's worth, it seems like the Criterion Channel streams for Accattone and Hawks and Sparrows are the newest masters while Matthew has the old one (the master Eureka used for their blu-ray). I can't tell whether or not Mamma Roma has the newest extant master on the Channel.

Do we know if any color films in this set have been Ritrovata-ed?

yoloswegmaster wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 2:12 pm I'm assuming that Accatone would be the best place to start for someone that hasn't seen any other Pasolini besides Salo?

I honestly think that Salo being one's first Pasolini is a bit like Tout va Bien being your first Godard! Though obviously not directly analogous, as there is no half century's worth of post-Salo Pasolini to compare. Accatone is an ideal place to start. Like Godard and his Breathless, it's only a starting point for one of the wildest creative outputs of the decade, but Pasolini entered cinema fully informed as an artist and intellectual. I honestly think his works as a whole are more harmonious with one another than Godard's own from the era, while being less repetitious and with a stronger intellectual and spiritual core.

yoloswegmaster wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 2:12 pm I'm assuming that Accatone would be the best place to start for someone that hasn't seen any other Pasolini besides Salo?

If you're pretty sure you're on board already, I think a chronological Pasolini is a great approach. It wasn't my approach, but his career has a rough, thematic two-step, oscillating between a contrarian ire and mythopoetic earnestness, and seeing how those threads intertwine and dominate and recede only serves the films better.

That said, Accattone isn't among my favorites. If you just want to sample before committing, I'd say Mamma Roma, Teorema, and Il Decameron give you a broad enough survey.

yoloswegmaster wrote: Sun Mar 12, 2023 2:12 pm I'm assuming that Accatone would be the best place to start for someone that hasn't seen any other Pasolini besides Salo?

Accatone is a great film but it’s mostly slicker than Pasolini’s other work so while yes I recommend starting with that as it’s always fun to work through a director’s filmography chronologically to see how they develop… it’s not hugely representative of the rougher almost-documentary aesthetic of the Trilogy of Life, Edipu Re, Medea, The Gospel According to Matthew etc. I think you can’t go wrong with working through his films in order, but if you’re desperate to jump ahead Matthew and the Trilogy of Life are text-book Pasolini, accessible and incredible works of cinema.

I'm hot and cold on Pasolini but he's a lot more eclectic than I initially believed after sampling only the bookends on a first run-through. Accatone and Mamma Roma are good, but they felt more of a piece than what came right after: The Gospel According to St. Matthew feels more like an experimental film tracking the sensory experience of spiritual progression than a biblical drama, and The Hawks and the Sparrows drops the dramatic ambitions to give us a simply hysterical buddy comedy. Those and Porcile -which is like an aesthetically-(rather than intellectually) denser Godard film than Godard was making around this time- are my three favorites, and wildly different from one another, showing a pretty significant range. zedz also recently journaled a binge of all his films in the dedicated filmmaker thread, and that might be a good guide as well as a place to go for a compendium of insights as you make your way through

I still mostly stand by this write-up of Pasolini's '60s output that I made almost exactly 10 years ago, despite having cooled a little on La terra vista dalla luna

I will then be starting with Accatone and watching the rest in chronological order, while reading the insights that you guys made in the dedicated threads. Thanks to everyone for giving their suggestions!

Seeing Svet's review on blu-ray.com, I'm eager to see what Chris will think of the Mamma Roma's restoration. To me, while Accatone is a very good 4K one, Mamma Roma's field grain looked frozen and digitally manipulated to a visibly problematic extent, especially when the material seemed to have some wobbling that wasn't entirely fixed, creating a very weird combination with the frozen grain.

At this moment that makes me feel like it's the greatest film release ever.

I don’t where else to put this but seeing as how the last and arguably most popular of Toto’s movies is here I thought it would best fit here. Anyways, my question is, will there be any chance at all for any of Toto’s films to receive Blu-Rays? Most are trapped in the purgatory of raw DVDs and based off reviews, they seem to be very popular, so it seems right that someone would release them, right?

A Toto boxed set of some sort seems like something Radiance, Eureka! or even Indicator (who are now very openly doing non-English language films) might try to pull off, if they can find a suitable angle for it. I would most put my money on Radiance, as they are very Italian-centric, and likely riding a high wave off of their initial success.

Honestly, a Steno and Toto set seems like it should sell itself.

Teorema's transfer notes in Pasolini 101:

This 2K restoration was undertaken by the Criterion Collection at Criterion Post from the 35mm original camera negative and a 35mm optical soundtrack positive.

Transfer notes on the stand-alone release back in 2020:

This new digital transfer was created in 4K resolution on an ARRISCAN film scanner from the 35mm original camera negative at Cinecitta in Rome. Thousands of instances of dirt, debris, scratches, splices, and warps were manually removed using MTI Film's DRS, while Digital Vision's Phoenix was used jitter, flicker, and small dirt. The original monaural soundtrack was remastered from a low-contrast 35mm print using Avid's Pro Tools and iZotope RX.

Colorist: Lee Kline/Criterion Post, New York.

Looks like the same restoration, scanned at 4K and perhaps restored at 2K by Criterion.