criterionforum.org

I've made it up through 10. So, 2 more arcs already after 5. I would say I also began to finally really catch on by the end of 5 -- which I found pretty moving. While this does feature parody and irony and the like, I find myself actually taking the series pretty seriously overall. I feel it has a lot of emotional resonance.

I do find Senjo's relationship with Araragi amusing. She really is not a typical "tsundere" -- because she is absolutely clear about her (overall) feelings for him (whatever irritation she may feel towards his actions, etc.).

Michael Kerpan wrote:While this does feature parody and irony and the like, I find myself actually taking the series pretty seriously overall. I feel it has a lot of emotional resonance.

I agree. The parody and irony isn't there to diffuse or undercut or defend against emotion; it's part of the show's complex tone and sits alongside genuinely felt moments.

Episode 7

The queer aspects of episode 7 show the film's tonal switches. When the girl teases Araraki-kun about BL lit, or the fact that her name refers to the Japanese word for bondage, or even how their discussion of underwear and exhibitionism is shot, cut, and scored like an anime battle--that was all fun parody. But the girl's story about her unrequited love for and subsequent rejection by Senjourgahara was genuine and moving, avoiding melodrama or sensationalism, and done over a complicated image of a girl stapled over--that is, both painfully bound up by Senjougahara, but also with a hint of kink to suggest the erotic edge of her feelings. Wonderfully done. And I loved how the state of the red books was used to symbolize the changes in her emotional state.

I'm really glad to see you guys getting into this! It is a really rewarding series once you get on its wavelength.

Episode 5

While I'm not a big fan of Mai Mai/Mayoi's section, I do really like the reveal of her character. It packs a lot of emotional resonance, both because of Mayoi's tragic backstory, but also how Koyomi breaks down upon discovering the truth. It's the first time he shows such vulnerability, and it's timed perfectly with Hitagi's declaration of love for Koyomi.

The arc also emphasizes the emptiness of this world. While it's apparent from the first episode, it isn't until Mayoi/Mai Mai's arc that I started to see how these characters seem to just be existing rather than occupying a living world (there were at least the hints of such a world - the school, the festival, Koyomi talking about his sisters and mother - but this void is emphasized when the characters are just wandering around it aimlessly). While Mayoi leads Koyomi astray, there's no difference between the empty spaces he wanders with her and the ones he does once finding the route to her final destination. I'm intrigued by the references to rezoning and construction, using them as obstacles and destructive forces that seem to appear without human intervention. It goes back to the director Oishi's interview about architecture. This series makes its version of Japan feel like a wasteland, even though it predates the 2011 earthquake by two years. It shows the creators' conscious approach to the architecture and landscape of the series, wherein they don't simply create a bare setting to emphasize the characters, but also use the buildings and white space to emphasize how barren this world is. I'm thinking back to Hitagi falling down all those levels within the school in the first episode, and how large it made that space feel. There is a similar emphasis on the largeness of space here, where rezoning makes the characters spend hours on finding the right route for something that, as Koyomi says, should have taken ten minutes.

Last thing I'll comment on: Mayoi' calls Koyomi "Mr. Aragi" at the end of the episode, avoiding her common practice of repeating syllables to annoy him. I researched what this name means as I'm sure there's some deeper definition I'm missing out on.

Anyone have any idea what the flashes of "Black Scene" and "Red Scene" are meant to signify?

Just noting ... each of the 5 arcs in S1 has a unique opening (and song sung by the main female character of the arc).

Mr Sausage wrote: Fri Jul 14, 2023 1:08 pm Anyone have any idea what the flashes of "Black Scene" and "Red Scene" are meant to signify?

I always took the black frames to signal Koyomi thinking but his mind coming up blank (as opposed to the quick succession of intertitles where his mind is overwhelmed with thought). However, another interpretation is that, since the bulk of Bake- is focused on Koyomi's perspective, especially these "filler" title cards, that we are seeing what Koyomi sees when he blinks during the black scenes (for example, when Hitagi staples his cheek in episode one, a black card suddenly appears, corresponding with Koyomi closing his eyes in pain). I think the red scenes are a bit scattershot. I initially thought they appeared during times of stress or pain for Koyomi, but that doesn't always play out.

I have to say, on the back of episode 10, this show can get uncomfortably sexual with pretty young characters, and I'm not entirely convinced it's parodic. At least it doesn't come across more ironic than similar stuff I've seen elsewhere.

I don't think it is parodic. I do think it is deliberately uncomfortable. I didn't feel this segment was "erotic" in any way, however.

I guess it depends on your kink. It was certainly kinky, with the bondage vibes and the non-consensual tentacle…stuff. It definitely gave me Wicked City vibes. And I’ve noticed anime can be far more comfortable with sexualizing young people than I’ll ever be. So…yeah.

It looks like the last 5 episodes will center around Hanekawa -- yet another interesting and (until now) enigmatic character. Only seen ep. 11 so far -- but do want to note that I found the opening of this (set along an ocean-front) particularly visually beautiful This is set in a place called Naoetsu. My wife and I have been in real-life Naoetsu (now part of a larger city named Joetsu) and the anime version seems like a larger place than what I recall.

Naoetsu trivia -- we see night-time waterfront/seaport Naoetsu in Suzuki's O-Line Stowaway.

Moving into the end zone -- 2 more episodes to go....

Finished.

Yes. Katakana is primarily used now for words borrowed (more recently) from languages other than ancient Chinese. This includes things like foreign place names and scientific terms. Another main use is for onomatopoetic words -- like "fuwa-fuwa" (soft and fluffy), and "toki-doki" (excited -- indicative of a pounding heart).

Yes this series is absolutely explosively stylish.

Suruga is definitely a hoot, she typically adds a lot of fun when she appears.

I'm finished now too. Against my expectations, I really enjoyed it. It was a singular aesthetic experience that seamlessly combined a range of tones, from juvenile humour, to adventure, to parody, to sex, to self-consciousness, to melodrama, to melancholy--and it all worked. It's interesting to see something so crowd-pleasing and pop-cultural use such a singular style.

But I do feel like I'm a bad audience for this show. I think you have to come to something like this having watched a lot of anime. I definitely felt like an outsider getting glimpses inside. The show is beginner repellent. It also does itself no favours by coming to a standstill just as it's getting started. It was a mistake to make the first arc be the Hachikuji-snail one, since after the first episode you immediately go into a placid relationship episode, then two and a half episodes of stasis and meandering conversation where the point of the story is hidden. So the effect is bafflement since you thought you were watching a show about high schoolers dealing with monsters, but spend three and a half episodes right off the bat that seemingly have no monsters nor plot even. Probably not the best way to start the show, and I wonder how many viewers dropped it before episode 5 pulls everything together and the show really takes off.

I'm probably not alone in finding the Monkey Paw arc the series highlight. It's breezy, comic, and also quietly devastating. Much of the series is like that (sadness, loss, loneliness, and heartbreak seem to underlie every arc no matter how comic), but Monkey Paw finds just the right balance. And Michael Kerpan is right, Suruga herself is a snappy personality that brings energy wherever she goes.

It's a testament to the strength of Godard's influence that some of his strongest imitators today are in fact Japanese filmmakers like Takeshi Kitano and the creators of this show. While not as brazenly experimental as Takeshis', I think Bakemonogatari shares a similar anarchic, self-referential spirit and sense of cinematic play. I've no idea if Kitano was an influence or just a fellow Godardian, but I found it useful to consider them alongside each other.

Despite its new wave influence, Bakemonogatari is not a show I'd expect to appeal to the forum at large. It's very anime, playing up a lot of the characteristic tones and features of the medium. If you're unused to or hesitant towards anime, this show is going to rake your nerves. In fact I think it already put off one of our members, didn't it? That said, I think there's lots here for Godardians to study, and that it's a great place to observe the continuing influence of the French New Wave on visual media. The show is a dense and peculiar visual experience if you can find your way into it, and I think it'd reward serious viewing. Thanks, Murdoch, for choosing it!

What I'm curious about is how this show fits into the Monogatari series as a whole.

Based on reading, it seems like a lot of the Monogatari series covers the same time periods we've already run across (or seen referenced in flashbacks). But it seems to move into new territory eventually. The sheer quantity of additional material is pretty daunting.

I wonder if a non-anime person who IS familiar with Kitano's wilder work (or maybe even Suzuki's) might not still be able to appreciate Bakemonogatari. I don't have much background in older anime after all (liking only a relatively few older shows).

I would say I liked this pretty consistently throughout. I liked all the arcs -- and all the important characters. I liked the dialog. I liked the visual style (a lot). I found the long final arc quite decent -- and felt it covered a lot of territory while seeming to maintain a leisurely pace most of the time.

Mr Sausage wrote: Mon Jul 24, 2023 2:15 pmWhat I'm curious about is how this show fits into the Monogatari series as a whole.

Michael Kerpan wrote: Mon Jul 24, 2023 5:15 pmBased on reading, it seems like a lot of the Monogatari series covers the same time periods we've already run across (or seen referenced in flashbacks). But it seems to move into new territory eventually. The sheer quantity of additional material is pretty daunting.

I've written a rundown of the remainder of the anime below, with the installments in the correct order.

After Bake comes Kizu (2016-2017, 3 films), the prequel story given a very quick recap at the beginning of the series. The reason for the long gap between installments -- and Tatsuya Oishi's absence from any other Monogatari adaptations -- is because Oishi spent years refining the storyboards for the trilogy of films. Why did the storyboards take so long? Well, Oishi has said that he likes to put himself into the characters' shoes when making anime, and he made the bold decision to omit the narration from a series known for its hefty amounts of dialogue, letting just the visuals convey Araragi's thoughts. We experience Araragi's spring break as it comes to him.

The long production process also allowed the films to look as fantastic as they do. Seriously, just look at the teaser trailer. I strongly recommend watching these even if you do not plan to watch the whole series.

Nise (2012, 12 episodes) is a sequel to Bake, detailing the events during Araragi's summer vacation. The first arc is more of a "hangout" one at first where we get to catch up with the main cast before the plot becomes more focused. Considered to be one of the weaker installments in the series, but it's not without its moments.

Neko (Kuro) (2012, 4 episodes) connects Kizu and Bake. This one is pretty underrated, because while it goes over events we've heard about before (Golden Week), it contains a lot of interesting character development. This finishes the First Season of the series.

Neko (Shiro) (5 episodes), Kabuki (4 episodes), Hana (5 episodes), Otori (4 episodes), Oni (4 episodes), and Koi (6 episodes) comprise the Second Season. They aired in 2013 with the exception of Hana, which was delayed for production reasons and aired at once in 2014. All of these come after Nise, but they skip around in the series' timeline quite a bit.

Tsuki (2014, 4 episodes) takes place after Koi. Another underrated installment, but I can't get into details without spoiling Second Season.

Koyomi (2016, 12 half-episodes) is set throughout the series, starting at Neko (Kuro) and finishing a little after Tsuki, with one half-episode for each month. Due to the unusual format, this originally streamed via a mobile app!

Owari (2015 and 2017, 20 episodes) jumps all over the place, and its final episodes make up the climactic arc of the "main story." The first 13 episodes (sometimes said to be 12, as the first arc aired as a two-episode special) aired in 2015, adapting two of the three Owari novels. It's speculated the last novel was adapted later because the producers were figuring out how to adapt 2016's Koyomi, as you can technically watch the first 13 episodes of Owari before watching Koyomi. That order isn't series-ruining, but trust me, it's better in the original order. As with Tsuki, I shouldn't go into plot details here.

Zoku Owari (2018) is one of the latest in the timeline, and is basically a coda for the main story. As such, it's paced more slowly than the other installments. This finishes Final Season (although the novels go into Off, Monster, and now Family Season because the author can't stop writing).

Also, I'm glad Kanbaru has gotten good reception here -- she's my favorite character! And speaking of characters, while there are some more members of the "main cast" introduced past Bake, you two have already been introduced to a large portion of them.

Boosmahn -- Thanks for the roadmap for the rest of the "franchise".... I suspect it will take me a few years to work my way through the whole thing.

I would say that the characters in this series (and the Japanese VA performances) were uniformly excellent. I would have a hard time picking one favorite.

I'm so grateful to you, Michael and Sausage, for giving this a chance!

I'm through the "snake" arc and agree with you, Sausage, about the depictions of adolescent nudity. I actually had forgotten about it til this rewatch.

Another thing I hadn't remembered was the structure of each arc. There is a clear formula that each one follows and perhaps the series is more straightforward in its narrative than I thought! Certainly not a criticism and I'm glad it's rather accessible, despite its reliance on the various tropes and stereotypes of the anime medium.

I appreciate how Hitagi's affection for Koyomi makes more sense as the show progresses. He can be quite selfless, even if it's clouded by his occasionally perverted behavior. Each of the characters of the series are given a greater depth than initial impressions lead the viewer to expect (I especially began to appreciate Hitagi after the reveal of her backstory in this rewatch, whereas in my past viewing I didn't really think about how much that past trauma would impact her).

I also started to agree more with Boosmahn's theory that the world isn't unpopulated, but rather Koyomi is just focused on those he's immediately engaged with. It would explain how Suruga, a fairly prominent sports star and previous fixture in Hitagi's life, doesn't make her way into existence until she brushes past Koyomi on the way to school.

I also wanted to highlight (again) how much I love the music and intros of the series. This and the opening of Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid (to name another example of a series that really went all out on the animation for the opening credits) show just how much creativity this genre holds.

I'll likely finish up the rest on my own without another post but can't wait to post in the next watchalong!