criterionforum.org

The Invunche wrote:You probably prefer vinyl to cd's.

well I for one do agree that vinyl is a lot better than CD.

A lot of old coots agree with you.

I don't like the covers with the blue thing around them.

People will never be happy! And although you might have said that facetiously, I had the same thought too!

I hope this new format never takes off. I'm so happy with my collection and, to tell you the truth, in my opinion the image quality in my equipment looks impressive. I just want to movies look and sound great, nothing else.

The Invunche wrote:A lot of old coots agree with you.

I'm only 21.

Seriously though, a good condition original pressing of a Blue Note album is the best sounding thing ever.

I love vinyl. Especially the increasing distortion created by the needle moving towards the center at an ever worsening angle combined with the dynamic loss of the record itself.

gigimonagas wrote:I hope this new format never takes off. I'm so happy with my collection and, to tell you the truth, in my opinion the image quality in my equipment looks impressive. I just want to movies look and sound great, nothing else.

amen.

vinyl does sound better, on a great system with a very expensive turntable and pristine LPs. But just one mint condition original mono pressing of, say, an early 60s Miles LP plus all this equipment would run you a few thousand dollars. Is it worth it? No. Just get the new remasters and be happy.

I've only JUST started replacing my 8-Track tapes with vinyl.

I love the look of HD but again, doesn't mean squat if they reserve it for the likes of "Dukes of Hazzard." Might as well wait for the NEXT big thing.

Let's hope criterion goes for BD.
Do you guys think they will start at 1 again?

OMG well come on "guys" do you!!? LOL!!
this crucial question must be answered so we can all sleep peacefully tonight!!!

Here are a few thoughts: quality does not always win out -- many things go into whether a new technology will be adapted: price, differentiation, demand.

Price: if there is little price difference, or if the price is actually lower, a new technology has a fighting chance. CDs were, and are, higher priced than LPs. But the initial pricing was not so out of line that LP owners completely dismissed the advent of the CD.

Differentiation: is the new disk that different? is it obviously better? can you demonstrate the difference? The CD was dramatically different -- some may say it was not as good, but it was different. For instance, it contains no surface noise, and this can be demonstrated in the store. Also, the CD was, well, compact -- and it could contain more music per disk.

So what problem does the new video disks solve? The CD solved two problems: it replaced old disks that no longer sounded great (remember that the quality of vinyl in the '70's was terrible), and it offered an opportunity to re-release the backcatalog.

Demand: this takes many forms. For instance, you could say that there was no demand for the CD because LPs were popular. But the mere fact that they had been around for over 50 years means that there was a built in demand for change. In addition, the reintroduction of so many out print titles (like the Blue Note CDs) assisted in the purchasing decision.

Here is where I think the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray movement could have trouble. The DVD player has just now become the norm. People no longer buy CD players and simply have begun buying dvd players instead. In addition, many people are only now buying their first plasma or lcd TV. The DVD looks very good to them now. Finally, so many manufacturers have begun releasing their back catalogue on DVD that the new format may not have an advantage of offering much beyond another copy of a movie you already have.

I'm afraid that the new disks will be the creation of the suits not the technicians. The new format is being introduced with the idea that it will be a new revenue stream. Further, the suits want a piracy proof format so they can control content infinitum (it won't work, of course).

I like the idea of a high-definition format. But I don't trust the people at Sony (or elsewhere) to look out for my best interests, or the best interests of the films they are releasing.

----

Comment about vinyl versus CD: this is an old and tired argument. A clean LP, produced on high-quality vinyl DOES sound great. But even in the hey day of the LP most LPs were pressed on bad vinyl. Combined with bad or damaged needles, even the best LPs would wear down. My Japanese Blue Note LPs still sound great. But I converted all of them to CD in order to preserve the music. The reason the CD won was because the public immediately saw the advantages of the format (ever try and play an LP in your car?).

When discussing what format is best, quality is only one factor -- it may the most important factor for many, but not the only factor. For instance, what sounds best an LP, a CD or a live orchestra? Now, try and buy an orchestra and place it in your living room.

The Invunche wrote:I love vinyl. Especially the increasing distortion created by the needle moving towards the center at an ever worsening angle combined with the dynamic loss of the record itself.

What kind of music do you listen to?

I can agree that classical music sounds better in a digital format, but not jazz.

Everything but Jazz.

The Invunche wrote:Everything but Jazz.

I guess that's your loss.

Does that mean you like Merzbow?

davidhare wrote:DVD began as a reasonably cheap production method and allows relatively cheap retail prices.

Then have no fears about the HD revolution because they've been doing hd masters for years. It's all in the can, so to speak. All they have to do is print them to disc, add a few menus, and bingo. Actually, I really hope that they put in full bitrate audio for these films. I'm sick of hearing about certain laserdiscs having better audio than dvds... And, I hope to God HDTVs become extremely affordable, like, $400 for a 42" 1080i...

Merzbow sounds better on CD, but is funnier live sitting at his laptop with people staring at him rapturously.

I have way too many records, but I listen to my iPod.

Merzbow?

Check it, you know, in between weeding out the unfuckingfunny. The release section should be particularly daunting.

Is this guy a PETA nut? I can't read anything on the site cause the character set is fucked up.

EDIT: the music is interesting.

davidhare wrote:Ben, I missed Langlois' post. Was he talking about a true 1080i display Grand Wega model? (I think there are one or two available in Oz but models can vary from country to country.) We actually replaced a 30 inch LCD late last year with the 43 inch Plasma because, basically, it gave us a bigger enough pic to make 4:3 viewing more satisfying, and also the much better contrast ratio and blacks of the Plaz. Are LCD's still weakest on contrast? Anyhow the freakin insurance company, rather than just giving me the dough to negotiate a comparable price for the 50 inch model, insists on a direct replacement of the 43. See who makes the money out of crime? Damn capitalism!! Nerts!

Yes, it's the Sony Wega 1080i 40". Contrasts are excellent. Basically, it's the first LCD model to match the Sony and Panasonic plasmas for picture quality.

How and where are brick-and-mortar stores going to display HD-DVD and Blu-Ray titles? And Paramount are releasing films on both formats?! Fucking hell! Confusion City, Arizona! And will there also be fullframe editions, too?! Even ordering online could be a gamble.

I'd love to see Blu-Ray succeed and for Criterion to join the club, but it will take considerable efforts to bring this about. Criterion have all those hi-def transfers in their cupboards and I am sure that they are itching to do tests and author them to Blu-Ray discs and take them home for themselves, but the commercial viability of the format amongst Tom Cruise fans will be what makes or breaks the levee.

Yeah, New Yorker and Facets doing Blu-Ray - gah. My stomach churns. Isn't it bad enough that so many companies screw up transfers in one way or another and ask $20-30, but it would be even more painful and unforgivable if those same bad habits and fuckups were applied to Blu-Ray disc for the same high (or even higher) prices.

I seriously doubt HD/Blu-ray discs will be in "full frame" as well since the whole point is they're hi-def and most hi-def sets are widescreen and that's the newness they're selling. They'll probably take awhile to even roll out any 1.33 discs in either format, and I'm sure if/when they do there will be jackasses complaining about those damn bars on the side, why did I buy this TV for anyway.

I'm guessing they'll go after the DVDs (for now) but before the PSP movies, so just before the video games, which are in what, three or four formats, soon to be increased again with PS3 Blu-ray games coming. I can see the sweat dripping of chain store managers' brows as I type.

ben d banana wrote:They'll probably take awhile to even roll out any 1.33 discs in either format

This is a very important point, Ben; I'm glad that you brought it up, as it had slipped my mind. Indeed, this initial year will more than likely see mostly films shot in color @ 1.85:1 and 2.35:1 from the 70s onwards, but mostly films from the last 10 years. Which black and white Academy film will be the breakthrough HD/BR release? We already have excellent/great releases of Casablanca, Citizen Kane, Sunset Blvd., The Day the Earth Stood Still, White Heat, On the Waterfront, etc, so it will take HD editions of High Noon, It's a Wonderful Life, The Best Years of Our Lives, The Big Sleep, Brief Encounter, Double Indemnity, Paths of Glory, Seven Samurai, etc or unreleased straight-to-HD titles like Ace in the Hole, Letter from an Unknown Woman, The Earrings of Madame de..., The Magnificent Ambersons, The Uninvited, etc, to really get things going. Otherwise, HD/Blu-Ray will just become a format for Big, Modern 'prestige' films to showcase their visual fireworks and surround sound sonic soundscapes.

In the late 90s, DVD seemed to be moving toward being such a format, but once Criterion got on board and started working their magic, things began to change and now black and white classics from the 40s and 50s are treated to deluxe 2-disc sets just as modern films are and as cult horror films from the 60s and 70s are - even silent films! We really are spoiled rotten right now, so it is understandable as to why we are so anxious about these new formats.

Big-selling prestige Studio films from the 60s and 70s, ie Lawrence of Arabia, 2001, Planet of the Apes, The Great Escape, The Godfather I & II, Jaws and of course, Star Wars would obviously break the levee, but it will remain to be seen how soon those crown jewels are brought out, how good they will actually look and if the previous extra features are ported over.

Of course, even if these famous titles are released, isn't it going to feel like a labour re-purchasing them? We all currently have the mindset of griping for new releases of films not released yet, but if HD took off, it would be like starting over again and elusive titles like If... and Performance might get buried even deeper amongst the releases of films that already have HD video masters available.

God damn my pessimism!

I saw all the demos at CES and hi-def DVDs of both formats will look great (it only has to match the quality of my D-VHS to impress me, and I believe the specs are actually better). People will want them when they upgrade their TVs -- which they are doing in the U.S. in droves because the prices have come down so much -- because their 480i DVDs, which used to look "great" and "just fine" will then look like shit. The analog broadcasts will be turned off in the coming couple of years anyway, and then you'll have to upgrade. This is not a niche product like SACD. It's not just one factor driving this whole train, and it won't happen by the end of this year. The Internet took years to reach critical mass, DVDs took years to reach critical mass, CDs, the iPod, etc. Naysayers who believe this technology won't catch on -- or, worse yet, supposed cineastes who reject it out of hand, though their favorite movies will look and sound demonstrably better (lossless audio, anyone?) -- are wrong. You'll need it and want it. Maybe not tomorrow, maybe not next year or even the year after... but resistance is futile.