criterionforum.org

Along with Withnail, Salesman and Grey Gardens, my copy has shipped.

My very first MOC disc. I haven't seen the Kino disc so I can't make any comparision but the MOC disc is simply breathtaking. The film still spins in my mind. My response to Pandora's Box as expressed in its Criterion thread was lukewarm and it was my first Pabst experience. Thankfully I didn't give up on Pabst completely. I went to see Love of Jeanne Ney and liked it quite a lot. And now this. My god. I LOVE fucking LOVE this film. So staggering - everything about it. the dreamy Louise who fills up the camera like no one else EVER. Champagne, cigarettes, sex and more sex. Louise drunk on champagne waltzing popped open this Pandora's box of emotions tucked away inside my soul and I just wept through this whole thing and I still have NO clue how or why it affected me this much. I really love Louise in this film more than Pandora's Box.

I'm with you, Michael. I think Diary ecplises Pandora by far, and Jeanne Ney is masterful as well. I'm so thrilled that this is finally an MoC title. If you remember, it was one of the first titles announced way back in ... was it 2004?

DVDTimes

A few screenshots in there. Based on those it looks pretty damned good. At least to my eyes.

The review states it's single-layered. Can this be true??!

I'm not sure how I feel about this DVD Times review. If I'm not mistaken, the writer seems to have a problem with the film being a melodrama - calling it stiff and so on. Hey, I love being caught up in a beautiful-designed melodrama, like the best of Stahl, Sirk, Visconti, Fassbinder and Almodovar and that's what I got from Diary of a Lost Girl. Louise Brooks is the reason to watch this film, Pabst knew that. With all the ugliness clawing at her - a diamond rolling through the sewage, she remains pure and we walk away from the film feeling fabulous for having known her. Louise seems to really love this role as Thymian (maybe the most personal for her?).

I just placed my order now, and am very excited. My fellow Americans should note that while I usually rely on CD-Wow's rockbottom pricing (for the older MoC stock, at least), Amazon UK currently has this for 8.49 pounds plus some shipping. Can't beat that!

I tried to find the poster image I assume the cover is based on, but no luck at the usual arthouse poster outlets. My wall needs it.

That was fast from HMV
They shipped my copy on Tuesday, received it today. Looks like a good release once again. The booklet is really interesting so far, haven`t been able to skip true the disc yet...

We're very happy with how this DVD looks. It's progressive, and treats the film restoration as best as we could muster. Here are some grabs from the MoC disc:

Thanks for the screen caps. They look marvelous. It's strange referring to a DVD package that includes a 40 page book as 'bare-bones'.

skuhn8 wrote:Thanks for the screen caps. They look marvelous. It's strange referring to a DVD package that includes a 40 page book as 'bare-bones'.

I agree - if the booklet text and images were turned into onscreen features, people would be praising the extras to the skies, despite the fact that they'd be much less user-friendly!

I think booklets are still a sorely underrated part of the DVD experience, largely because very few labels make a real effort (and also, to be fair, because booklets often aren't sent out with review copies). But some labels - MoC, Criterion, the BFI - really do push the boat out with their booklets and I'd like to see more acknowledgement of this.

I haven't seen the Diary of a Lost Girl booklet yet, but I was very impressed with the ones for General Idi Amin Dada and the Maysles films: they weren't especially lengthy, but there was a lot of of very useful information.

The sad reality of the digital age. If the respective essay writers were reading their own essays over excerpts and stills from the film--as well as being on camera themselves--we'd have three or four special features adding up to say 35 minutes constituting a fairly well 'stacked' disc.

Besides, these booklets help justify the bulk these dvds take up. I never fail to be disappointed when I open up Warner (and of course more and more other labels nowadays) amarays to find...a lonely little disc in a big black space. Sometimes I wish these companies would fall back on the disc sized sleeves that Japanese companies use to release special jazz cds. Artwork and a cover for the disc. At least the Fox Noirs include an informative--albeit brief--little sheet with some background info, a couple stills and chapters.

Fortunately the days of long onscreen text essays are moving behind us.

skuhn8 wrote:The sad reality of the digital age. If the respective essay writers were reading their own essays over excerpts and stills from the film--as well as being on camera themselves--we'd have three or four special features adding up to say 35 minutes constituting a fairly well 'stacked' disc.

Absolutely - and one of the reasons I decided not to go for commentaries on the BFI's Svankmajer set (aside from the fundamental reason that I really didn't think that the medium suited his films' highly-compressed, rapidly-cut and infinitely reinterpretable nature) is that I knew I already had lots of pre-existing analysis to draw on, courtesy of the excellent critical coverage that the BFI published in the 1980s and early 1990s in the Monthly Film Bulletin and Sight & Sound. So sticking this material in a booklet made much more sense to me.

I haven't compared the factual content of the Criterion commentaries on Salesman and Grey Gardens with the equivalent in the interviews and booklet essays on the MoC editions, but I'm willing to bet that there's a massive overlap, certainly covering all the really important stuff. And I personally prefer material like this in booklet and interview form.

Rosenbaum talked about this a while ago in Cinema Scope, and it's the main reason why renting can sometimes be completely unsatisfactory. Reading the terrific booklet for Diary this morning, I was reminded why I couldn't have gone for the cheaper option. Yet another superb MoC job.

MichaelB wrote:I agree - if the booklet text and images were turned into onscreen features, people would be praising the extras to the skies, despite the fact that they'd be much less user-friendly!

There's another option, as exemplified by the Tag Gallagher video essays on the Second Sight Ophuls discs. He reads his essay aloud over pertinent clips from the film. Sometimes the clips repeat themselves 5 or 6 times and areas of the image are highlighted to emphasize his discusson of the mise-en-scene. They're the best DVD extras I've ever seen and something that can't be replicated with booklet essays or commentaries.

davidhare wrote:Does anyone - really- listen to commentary tracks any more? I havent since the Altman/Kevin Kline one for Prairie Home Companion, and I lucked into that one. And glad I did.

I do - once at the very least although I have a number of old favourites that I listen to quite a bit. That might explain why I have a little bit of a backlog

That might be a good subject for the lists section - recommended commentaries, and ones to avoid at all costs!

skuhn8 wrote:Fortunately the days of long onscreen text essays are moving behind us.

I agree, I much prefer booklets than on-screen text. Though I have been extremely impressed by some on-screen text features: the fascinating FBI crime classification manual and Voices of Death features on the Criterion Silence of the Lambs and the enormous amount of text on the Terminator 2: Judgment Day Ultimate Edition disc from complete drafts of screenplays and interviews to detailed scientific papers! However, and this the main reason why I prefer booklets to on screen text (apart from having to read the screen for extended periods), is that many of these features had no index so you have to read the articles at once without being able to leave and come back later or go and check out the film if something in the text reminds you of a certain scene or moment. Compared to having the book in front of you there is the problem of having to leave the essay to find the moment in the film and then return to point in the essay where you left off, which I found often involved having to scroll through many pages of text to get to the point I had left off at if it was a particularly long essay.

In the case of T2 which had a great index, the sheer amount of material in each section still led to that problem. Perhaps the answer would have been to have a thumbnail screen offering instant access to each page similar to the way the online magazines now work (although I've not thought through the amount of disc space such a feature would take up and authouring nightmares that would cause!)

However I'd still be happy with text screens if there wasn't going to be a booklet! Though I'd be even happier with both
(I was probably spoiled by the Criterion of In The Mood For Love which included both on screen text essays and an excellent booklet!)

A fantastic transfer, a fantastic film, a fresh, low price point for nigh-barebones discs, and an essential release all around. Thank you, MoC.

SO does anybody know if there is any new material in this versus the previous R1? Are these both from the same FWMS master tape? I recall someone (it may have been hare) saying that there was material missing from the Murnau FOundation resto seen on the Kino from 2001. Or is this from that same resto?

What really is abysmal about the Kino (the image is progressive-- though with Pal extra frames here & there--and the bitrates are usually hovering in the high-sixes to 10 kbps since it's a Dual Layer disc) is that fucking Joseph Turrin synth score--------ACKKKKKK. It's so pink and girly and trite and vapid it totally blows the Pabstian melancholia of the onscreen images.

Another thing the R1 has as a redeeming factor is that boku-rare 2-reeler WINDY RILEY GOES TO HOLLYWOOD from 1930, made right when Brooks cam back from Europe, where you hear her speaking vopice for the first time (as opposed to PRIX where she's dubbed).

But christ do I hate that horrendous Turrin score.... So does anyone know the deal w the alleged "missing scenes"? DO they even exist or was that all just vapor? Has there been a new resto by FWMS. This is not my favorite Pabst, my ranking of Pabsts 3 films being discussed here is JEANNE NEY, PANDORA, then DIARY. If there's new footage in the MoC vs the R1 then I might be prompted to spend my weak dollar to double dip, but sadly not otherwise.

HerrSchreck wrote:SO does anybody know if there is any new material in this versus the previous R1? Are these both from the same FWMS master tape? I recall someone (it may have been hare) saying that there was material missing from the Murnau FOundation resto seen on the Kino from 2001. Or is this from that same resto?

I keep meaning to run both side by side, but haven't had the time yet. But I'll let you (collectively) know when I do. No question that the MoC is the superior transfer, but the precise differences will have to await closer analysis.

What really is abysmal about the Kino (the image is progressive-- though with Pal extra frames here & there--and the bitrates are usually hovering in the high-sixes to 10 kbps since it's a Dual Layer disc) is that fucking Joseph Turrin synth score--------ACKKKKKK. It's so pink and girly and trite and vapid it totally blows the Pabstian melancholia of the onscreen images.

I really like the MoC score - it's solo piano, but there wasn't a single point where I felt it jarred.

MichaelB wrote:

HerrSchreck wrote:Or is this from that same resto?

I keep meaning to run both side by side, but haven't had the time yet. But I'll let you (collectively) know when I do.

They're from the same restoration -- the one undertaken by Bologna et al, and footage is the same. Transit added a new piano score, which was retained on the MoC release. I'm not certain, but I believe the Kino score is their own.

The MoC also has the benefit of being a progressive encode, and being absent of any chromatic artifacts during playback. Not to mention original German intertitles with newly translated (removable) subs, and a 40-page booklet.

cmk.

Schreck, interesting that you placed Pandora's Box above Lost Girl. Maybe it's time for you to revaluate Girl. I netflixed the Kino version just to see if there's any difference from the MOC version. I wasn't able to play both discs side by side but I have to say that I'm glad I saw the MOC version first. The Kino version is a disaster. MOC's transfer is sublime. I can see why you hate the Turrin score. My impression was the same but MOC's new score feels different and just right; it doesn't interfere with the lush images. I'm not totally positive but the Kino version seems to be chopped up by more multiple intertitles, breaking the flow of emotions, the "gaze", etc at the wrong time while MOC seems to have less of that. I could be wrong.

However unlike Kino, MOC's intertitles are all in German which is a monstrous plus.

I just got this, bit disappointed with the film to be honest, it is good but I was expecting something different, the DVD however was first rate and has really restored my faith in MoC. High hopes for Nosferatu and Der Letzte Mann now

I was just reading through this thread to determine whether to get the Kino or the MoC, and while it sounds like MoC is the winner regardless, I have a quick followup on this topic:

HerrSchreck wrote:SO does anybody know if there is any new material in this versus the previous R1? Are these both from the same FWMS master tape? I recall someone (it may have been hare) saying that there was material missing from the Murnau FOundation resto seen on the Kino from 2001. Or is this from that same resto?

At the beginning of this thread, there's talk of an ending that goes on longer than the Kino DVD, apparently in the Gaumont restoration and a print that screened presumably at the George Eastman House. I gather that the MoC and Kino are both missing this longer ending?

I could be misinterpreting the whole conversation—people could be saying that the Kino has the full ending.