Zidane: A 21st Century Portrait (Douglas Gordon & Philippe Parreno, 2006)

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

And then there's this, from a story found in the sidebar of kinjitsu's link:

FIFA launched its investigation into both players after Zidane rammed his head into Materazzi's chest in the final. Zidane said Materazzi used racist remarks and that he insulted his mother and sister, but he refused to reveal the exact words used.

Materazzi admitted to insulting Zidane, but claimed he never uttered anything defamatory about his mother.

"In their statements, both players stressed that Materazzi's comments had been defamatory but not of a racist nature," FIFA said Thursday.

It's conceivable that Zidane is sick of the whole thing and lied in his statement to the investigators just to help the controversy blow over (nice try), but it doesn't change the fact that we have more than Materazzi's word to go on here.

[The Invunche]

Grasping at straws.

[colinr0380]

I too am a big football fan as well. Incidentally, has anyone seen Goal! yet? Complete cliche-ridden story and dialogue but still enjoyable to watch if only for the dynamically shot match sequences. Also, Zidane has a brief cameo as well as other big names in the sport.

It's apparently the first part of a trilogy. They're just finishing Goal! 2: Living the Dream

I think it sounds fascinating from a formal perspective: 17 cameras (using various film and video formats) follow a single player for the duration of an entire soccer match.

But isn't this just what a lot of women (and some of us men!) do? Pick out the cutest player in shorts and focus on them during the game?

Might it not be boring - during the times he doesn't have the ball he'll just be running round in shorts, spitting and scratching his crotch....oh. Well until they get a camera in the showers after the match this'll have to do.

And half of it isn't true. There's was no racist taunting. See people think something horrible was said because of Zidane's response, but the guy is a hothead with a history of viciously attacking other players. Everybody who follows football knows this.

I'm shocked - I thought only the fans were allowed to shout racist abuse. What's this about players getting to do it as well?

I'm surprised that they allow anyone who is a hothead with a history of violence on the pitch... oh wait, aren't they mostly like that? See Manchester City's Ben Thatcher who 'accidentally' knocked another player unconcious with his elbow or
Wayne Rooney's 'football boot ground into crotch' antics at the World Cup. Or Eric Cantona, whose flying kick hasn't
harmed his career. Even Vinny Jones has become a much loved (?) hard man in the movies.

Although it works the other way too - some of the football players on the receiving end are such bad actors they'd never get hired as stunt doubles!

I'm just glad for cycling and the Tour de France - no one ever acts unsportsmanlike there.

[Fletch F. Fletch]

It's apparently the first part of a trilogy. They're just finishing Goal! 2: Living the Dream

Yeah, I've heard about that. The guy who produced the movie did an interview but on the Fox Soccer Channel when the first installment was about to hit theaters and said that they actually got permission to shoot at the World Cup. I think the main character ends up playing for Real Madrid in the second film...

[The Invunche]

I'm shocked - I thought only the fans were allowed to shout racist abuse. What's this about players getting to do it as well?

If you had read the posts of the thread you'd see that Zidane and Materazzi agree that there was no racial abuse.

I'm surprised that they allow anyone who is a hothead with a history of violence on the pitch... oh wait, aren't they mostly like that? See Manchester City's Ben Thatcher who 'accidentally' knocked another player unconcious with his elbow or
Wayne Rooney's 'football boot ground into crotch' antics at the World Cup. Or Eric Cantona, whose flying kick hasn't
harmed his career. Even Vinny Jones has become a much loved (?) hard man in the movies.

Great! Shitty sarcasm. No one here was in anyway suggesting Zidane shouldn't be allowed on the pitch. All I've said is that I don't respect him.

[Matt]

I think it sounds fascinating from a formal perspective: 17 cameras (using various film and video formats) follow a single player for the duration of an entire soccer match.

Might it not be boring - during the times he doesn't have the ball he'll just be running round in shorts, spitting and scratching his crotch....oh. Well until they get a camera in the showers after the match this'll have to do.

Not to me. I can watch this kind of minimalist filmmaking for hours. Plus, the soundtrack will be interesting as well. All of the sound has been added in post-production (no sync sound) and there is a Mogwai score as well.

[kinjitsu]

Hollywood Reporter review and sportswriter Christopher Clarey's take on the film at the Herald Tribune.

[Toxicologist]

Apparently this is due for dvd release in France on Dec. 5th.

[colinr0380]

If you had read the posts of the thread you'd see that Zidane and Materazzi agree that there was no racial abuse.

This piece of sarcasm was aimed more at fans on terraces in football matches who in some situations see fit to make monkey noises when black players run onto the pitch etc. I'm glad to hear players haven't taken it up - leave that up to the people on the terraces, they seem much more used to doing it.

I'm surprised that they allow anyone who is a hothead with a history of violence on the pitch... oh wait, aren't they mostly like that? See Manchester City's Ben Thatcher who 'accidentally' knocked another player unconcious with his elbow or Wayne Rooney's 'football boot ground into crotch' antics at the World Cup. Or Eric Cantona, whose flying kick hasn't harmed his career. Even Vinny Jones has become a much loved (?) hard man in the movies.

Great! Shitty sarcasm. No one here was in anyway suggesting Zidane shouldn't be allowed on the pitch. All I've said is that I don't respect him.

Well, actually both the quotes you commented on were meant to be sarcastic but with a serious point to make, which was where would you start in complaining about the actions of footballers? Do you say one or the other is at fault and act shocked as if there's never been some previous footballer who's been an idiot and punched, kicked or headbutted someone? On the other side do you get shocked that someone winds someone up and takes a dive at the earliest opportunity. Short of being elbowed into unconciousness where there's little doubt you are putting it on, there is always some doubt and side-taking.

Are there any football players who should be absolutely respected though? I say this as a non-fan so I'm interested as to whether there are any sterling examples? And this is beyond great footballing skill, which I assume anyone who plays professional football possesses, but whether they are decent, sportsmanlike and professional. Unfortunately, and this is just the impression I get from many of the scandals mentioned and media attention on the game, it seems that a lot of footballers are overgrown children (since that is the age where they have to be 'discovered' in order to become professional footballers), who come by money and a certain cache by being good at football, and then go off the rails when they don't know how to manage the celebrity. However I would be interested to hear of decent players, who probably don't get the media attention they deserve because they don't get involved in such scandals.

I shouldn't direct this particularly at football though, which is why I made my last sarcastic comment about cycling, a sport I quite enjoy but where cheating also seems to be rife. You could also look at situations such as Michael Schumacher in Formula 1, who has a history of unsportsmanlike behaviour (for example one year early in his Formula 1 career when it became obvious to him he wasn't going to be able to finish a race and might loose the championship he took out his nearest points rival in a double crash, securing his first place - it was obvious what he had done but he was allowed to get away with it), and yet is now feted in his final year of motor racing for his contribution to the sport!

The only contribution I could see was that he broke the last barrier of sportmanship by not breaking, but twisting beyond recognition the rules and, more importantly, being allowed to do so. What does that say to other people in the same sport? That as long as you get away with it, that's fine? Furthermore, what does it say when someone else is treated more harshly by the same governing bodies that hands out lesser penalties for similar offences? That as long as you are in favour you can do whatever you want to whoever you want?

To take it back specifically to football aren't the two players involved in that headbutting fracas, for whatever reason it was done, just following in the well-trodden ground of violence that other players have previously done?

Sure - fines and match suspensions are a slap on the wrist, but what's that to someone who earns all that and much more per week? Match suspensions - getting paid for not even playing - what a punishment!

And this comes back to your point about lack of respect for a particular football player - was that the defining moment of your loss of respect or was it an incident that allowed you to crystallise your hatred that had been building for the one particular player? A lot of these points can be made about most sports so I don't want to single out football for criticism, but I would suggest that the worldwide popularity of the game, combined with it being a social (and socialising) force that is probably the most powerful influence, at least in Britain, makes me much more critical of not just the players actions but the hypocrisy of both the governing bodies that are meant to ensure fair play, and the fans who seem to take their life lessons from what they see on the pitch. It pains me deeply to see young children provided with their first set of ready-made prejudices in the form of hatred for another football team, which they can then apply to future life situations where they face ‘others'. I would stress again this isn't an attack on the game of football (just as, for example, my strong views against George Bush shouldn't be seen as an attack on America itself), but a questioning of the hypocrisy, doublethink and rule bending (breaking?) that sullies anything when unscrupulous people feel they can get away with it.

Anyway, sorry to take it so far off topic of the actual film itself. Some criticism of the film that I've heard so far revolves around it being perhaps more suited to being an installation piece in a museum, rather than as a film in the cinema. What is the forum's take on this idea? Is it an attempt to try and show the art of playing football for arty types who might not be familiar with the game? Will it be successful in the US in the way that a film about American Football that follows a player round the match with a voiceover of his thoughts would be criticised for because it is about a sport more popular outside the US and that therefore has a certain 'outside the norm' cache?

[Fletch F. Fletch]

Are there any football players who should be absolutely respected though? I say this as a non-fan so I'm interested as to whether there are any sterling examples? And this is beyond great footballing skill, which I assume anyone who plays professional football possesses, but whether they are decent, sportsmanlike and professional.

My vote would go to Steven Gerrard of Liverpool. I've never heard of him being embroiled in any scandals... I think he was a bit of a ruffian in his early days but since becoming the captain of Liverpool he's certainly been the epitome of class and professionalism and is one helluva footballer as well. I still wish McClaren had named him captain of the England team instead of John Terry but oh well...

[The Invunche]

Are you sure you're American?

[TomReagan]

Are there any football players who should be absolutely respected though? I say this as a non-fan so I'm interested as to whether there are any sterling examples? And this is beyond great footballing skill, which I assume anyone who plays professional football possesses, but whether they are decent, sportsmanlike and professional.

My vote would go to Steven Gerrard of Liverpool. I've never heard of him being embroiled in any scandals... I think he was a bit of a ruffian in his early days but since becoming the captain of Liverpool he's certainly been the epitome of class and professionalism and is one helluva footballer as well. I still wish McClaren had named him captain of the England team instead of John Terry but oh well...

My vote would go to Arsenal / France's Thierry Henry. A class act all around and a truly magnetic presence on the pitch.

Fletch -- although I admire Gerrard as well, I think Terry brings a passion to his play that was sorely lacking from the top when Becks was the skipper. I think it will continue to be the shot in the arm that the squad sorely needed.

[Napoleon]

I'm not sure why ZZ's hair trigger temprement means that he can't be respected.
Sure the guy is no angel, but neither were Cruijff, Beckenbauer, Maradona, Garrincha (although I'm still unconvinced that ZZ's talent would put him in this elite league). Should we not respect them as footballers either?

Besides if anyone deserved nutting it was Materazzi. The guy has built a career by using underhand tactics.

[The Invunche]

I never said he can't be respected. I only said I didn't respect him. I'm not demanding perfection, but personally I can't respect someone who time after time resorts to violence. Feel free to respect anyone you like.

[Napoleon]

I never said he can't be respected. I only said I didn't respect him. I'm not demanding perfection, but personally I can't respect someone who time after time resorts to violence. Feel free to respect anyone you like.

As a person you can't respect him but as a footballer you can? Fair enough.

I feel a similar way about Bergkamp. A few years ago he was unbelievably good for Arsenal, but would let himself down by stamping on opponents.

Ditto Cantona (who I believe was a better player than ZZ), although he was an absolute nutcase.

[The Invunche]

As a person you can't respect him but as a footballer you can? Fair enough.

I have never been able to separate the personal and professional side. Same goes for writers, directors, politicians etc.

[Fletch F. Fletch]

My vote would go to Arsenal / France's Thierry Henry. A class act all around and a truly magnetic presence on the pitch.

Fletch -- although I admire Gerrard as well, I think Terry brings a passion to his play that was sorely lacking from the top when Becks was the skipper. I think it will continue to be the shot in the arm that the squad sorely needed.

Good call on Henry... he's an awesome player and seems like a pretty classy guy. Ronaldinho also seems like a good guy and is certainly an amazing player... altho, he was very underwhelming at the World Cup.

As for Terry, I suppose you're right. And he does have more experience than Gerrard as well, I believe... We shall see how they do under Terry's captaincy...

[Cinephrenic]

Nah....they are just the Jackass crew 20 years from now.

[Polybius]

Are you sure you're American?

There's 300 Million of us. We're not all morons.

Sure the guy is no angel, but neither were [...] Maradona [...]

And to my knowledge, Zidane never Karch Kiralyed a ball into the goal in World Cup play.

[kinjitsu]

From Cahiers du cinéma:

Zidane: The Daydreaming of a Loner